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Here is my compromise solution that I believe would reduce frustration for most customers and BF.

Yearly releases' estimates only. e.g. CMFI module and CM:SF2 2018 and CM:RT module 2019.

If the a game looks like it is not going to make that year's release date then a 3-6 month lead forum statement from BF explaining briefly why.

Game element developmental updates would be be far less frequent and would have more Suprise! factor (remember the joy when BF and ChrisND released CM:FI ).

These rules would be religiously observed by BF so customers always knew where they stood in regard to release dates even if they wished for more frequent updates.

 

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Game development updates don't really mean much. Game engine work is across the board so that's no indication. BFC has an impressive list of stuff nearing the final stages of completion after several years of work, there's a LOT that is 'almost done'. The CMSF2 project had unexpectedly  jumped the queue so became the first to get completed. After CMSF2 drops I do not know which of the 'almost done'  projects will switch to 'all-hand-on-deck' next. I could flip a coin and tell you the results., that would be as valid as any 'estimate'.

 

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If it is any consolation to anyone, Leonardo left behind a huge backlog of unfinished (and never begun) works, and constantly reproached himself for this fault in his journals.

Christopher Hitchens relates (perhaps apocryphally) that 'whenever [Leonardo] tested a new quill, he would scrawl the same unhappy inquiry: “Dimmi, dimmi se mai fu fatta cosa alcuna” (Tell me, tell me if anything ever got done).'

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16 hours ago, MikeyD said:

there's a LOT that is 'almost done'.

I could flip a coin and tell you the results., that would be as valid as any 'estimate'.

 

I was kind of hoping for more than two projects :P

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Everyone seems annoyed that the inevitable happened and the release date slipped but all I can think is how annoying it is that this means that the patch for 4.0 games has also slipped.

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2 hours ago, SgtHatred said:

Everyone seems annoyed that the inevitable happened and the release date slipped

Not really...  Those of us who have been fans of BF for 20 years know that this is the way things are with a small company... and as Chris said... "I personally prefer nebulous shipping dates with quality products released rather than firm shipping dates with buggy releases requiring endless patches.".

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19 hours ago, SgtHatred said:

Everyone seems annoyed that the inevitable happened and the release date slipped but all I can think is how annoying it is that this means that the patch for 4.0 games has also slipped.

Haha, yeah me too :) To me, CMSF2 is the soggy broccoli someone else has to enjoy before we can get to the dessert...

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19 minutes ago, Bulletpoint said:

To me, CMSF2 is the soggy broccoli someone else has to enjoy before we can get to the dessert...

It's crisp steamed broccoli and a baked potato with a a grilled sirloin sitting next to them!

 

Mord.

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21 minutes ago, Mord said:

It's crisp steamed broccoli and a baked potato with a a grilled sirloin sitting next to them!

Before desert. :D

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4 minutes ago, IanL said:

Before desert. :D

 

Sahara or Mojave?

 

Mord.

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Posted (edited)

How long before this segues into car metaphors?

Give the wine to Ian, one can work up a mighty thirst among the dunes.

Mord.

Edited by Mord

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Oh man. I'm not even going to fix it...

2 hours ago, Mord said:

mighty thirst among the dunes.

Thanks.

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On 8/15/2018 at 1:12 PM, chris talpas said:

I personally prefer nebulous shipping dates with quality products released rather than firm shipping dates with buggy releases requiring endless patches.

 

Chris

That certainly could be the case.  As St. Paul said "For now we see through a glass darkly.."

neb·u·lous
 
adjective
adjective: nebulous
  • (of a concept or idea) unclear, vague, or ill-defined.
    "nebulous concepts like quality of life"
    synonyms: vague, ill-defined, unclear, hazy, uncertain, indefinite, indeterminate, imprecise, unformed, muddled, confused, ambiguous
    "nebulous ideas"

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On 8/10/2018 at 10:43 PM, Battlefront.com said:

I doubt the guys who "do it very well" roll out of bed, make a 5 minute post, then get on making games for the rest of the day. 

Steve, as someone who knows the above-mentioned Jason Williams as a personal friend (heck, we went to each other's weddings), I can assure you that game development is his full time job. You know I love the work and the games you develop, but I'm one of those that believes your frequency/methods of communicating updates with the community could be a lot better. 

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In regards to the thought about providing some sort of updates, I understand the concern of a small team when it comes to communication (I have been working in games for just over 10 years, and my current team is about 8 people).

However, I think it's not quite true that some kind of community update does not fit the wargaming community - especially since the hardcore folks here who are the core audience, buying most of the games (maybe all of them?), are literally asking for it. But a good example is the John Tiller team - certainly an equally niche, nerdy wargame outfit, and they have been producing some great new community updates. They have even gone so far as to ask for map feedback, which has already lead to some positive changes and an alternate terrain set.

Here are some examples - note that they are not weekly or monthly affairs at all, so it is not a regular thing for them either - but they do make a note to publish on a schedule, and the posts are meaty:

http://www.wargamedesignstudio.com/2018/08/05/north-africa-graphics-round-2/

http://www.wargamedesignstudio.com/2018/07/21/wargame-design-studio-2018-half-yearly-report-part-two/

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Erwin, you almost owe me a monitor.  I was able to divert the high velocity stream of coffee at the last minute.  The cat is particularly unhappy now and busily cleaning off in the corner.  Be curious if coffee makes her anymore hyper than she already is.

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The big step forward was the big update on the game.  I am reading into this that people aren't demanding some solid date on release, but looking for a more than once a year update on where their games are in development.  There are 5-6 games and everyone has their favorite.  I am reading into this that customers just want some communications, beyond the quick spurts that come along after months of grumbling.

This is especially true of a patch.  If a patch is being worked on, can we at least get an idea of what is being worked on?

 

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I would be interested in knowing the kind of things that go on behind the scenes. Pros and cons taken into account when making a decision, areas being worked on, some things that have been achieved since the last update. It may also have the side effect of people realising, and appreciating, more what goes into each game. 

For example, something that i have been thinking about is the work involved in a new vehicle. I guess research has to be performed on armour, effectiveness of weapons/ammo, ammo load out, performance on/off-road, then building the model (with armour values for every panel?), modelling separate elements (eg road wheels/tracks to simulate suspension), siting the crew members so that they fit and access the viewing ports ( no idea if that’s modelled), designing one or more skins - depending on weather conditions (are skins needed for different levels of detail?). I’m sure i’ve missed lots out. When I think about it I am amazed at the final product.

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Posted (edited)
Quote

"I would be interested in knowing the kind of things that go on behind the scenes. Pros and cons taken into account when making a decision, areas being worked on, some things that have been achieved since the last update. It may also have the side effect of people realising, and appreciating, more what goes into each game. "

I recall Steve relating this viewing port problem to the forum during development. - Best way to keep tabs on what's said about going on is keep an eye out for his posts.

Edited by Wicky

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