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Posted (edited)
11 hours ago, Michael Emrys said:

That's what made me cancel my membership (or whatever you call it). I would sooner dig out my eyeballs with a blunt spoon than go back to that.

Michael

You realize that makes you sound comically incapable right? I mean, c'mon, you can't possibly be that computer illiterate.

Edited by SgtHatred

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Just now, SgtHatred said:

You realize that makes you sound comically incapable right? 

Lol I was busy trying to formulate something more diplomatic but of similar nature. How can you live with (windows) computers or the internet, when a sudden popup on your screen ruins your day? 😅

 

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, SgtHatred said:

You realize that makes you sound comically incapable right? I mean, c'mon, you can't possibly be that computer illiterate.

As someone who has worked in IT, let me tell you that there is no bottom limit on computer literacy. I've seen things, you people wouldn't believe.

On Steam:

I think BFC has good reason to keep off Steam. Besides the issue of licensing and Valve's cut, the main issue is the Steam user base. How many customers would Steam bring? I think significantly less than one thinks. Let's take a look at some stats from Steam Charts ( http://steamcharts.com )

Theatre of War 2: Kursk -- Monthly Average Players per Day: 2.3

Theatre of War -- Monthly Average Players per Day: 2.2

Graviteam Tactics: Mius Front -- Monthly Average Players per Day: 15.9

Tank Warfare: Tunisia 1943 -- Monthly Average Players per Day: 6.5

Steel Division: Normandy 44 -- Monthly Average Players per Day: 395.5

Wargame: Red Dragon -- 699.7

Arma 3: 16,329.6

Tactics games aren't really popular, even when compared to related genres. I seriously doubt the move to Steam would offer a significant increase in users. This being said, I'd love to see the older CM games on GOG! I think GOG is a much more friendly platform to old-ish tactics games.

Edited by DerKommissar

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4 hours ago, Sulomon said:

https://strawpoll.com/2dy52w8f
As of now the results are 12 yes, 4 no, and 3 neutral.  Erwin I think you might have been a tad off when saying most players on these forums don't think Steam would be beneficial.  Most people it seems support it.  And of the people who don't like steam it seems to be in part at least from trivial problems they have had with steam.  Such as people complaining about Steam running on startup which isn't a steam problem but a not knowing computer basics problem.

You aren’t factoring in those that think your straw poll is a complete waste of time and aren’t voting no like I would if I thought it mattered. 😁. When formulating a survey it is important to know how your question weights the result. Players who want steam are more likely to vote therefore your poll question is skewed from the start.  

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1 hour ago, DerKommissar said:

As someone who has worked in IT, let me tell you that there is no bottom limit on computer literacy. I've seen things, you people wouldn't believe.

On Steam:

I think BFC has good reason to keep off Steam. Besides the issue of licensing and Valve's cut, the main issue is the Steam user base. How many customers would Steam bring? I think significantly less than one thinks. Let's take a look at some stats from Steam Charts ( http://steamcharts.com )

Theatre of War 2: Kursk -- Monthly Average Players per Day: 2.3

Theatre of War -- Monthly Average Players per Day: 2.2

Graviteam Tactics: Mius Front -- Monthly Average Players per Day: 15.9

Tank Warfare: Tunisia 1943 -- Monthly Average Players per Day: 6.5

Steel Division: Normandy 44 -- Monthly Average Players per Day: 395.5

Wargame: Red Dragon -- 699.7

Arma 3: 16,329.6

Tactics games aren't really popular, even when compared to related genres. I seriously doubt the move to Steam would offer a significant increase in users. This being said, I'd love to see the older CM games on GOG! I think GOG is a much more friendly platform to old-ish tactics games.

Oh crap, you aren’t going to bring real facts into this discussion are you?  Oh geez there goes the neighborhood. 

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3 hours ago, SgtHatred said:

You realize that makes you sound comically incapable right? I mean, c'mon, you can't possibly be that computer illiterate.

Never under (over?) estimate Emrys 

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8 minutes ago, sburke said:

You aren’t factoring in those that think your straw poll is a complete waste of time and aren’t voting no like I would if I thought it mattered. 😁. When formulating a survey it is important to know how your question weights the result. Players who want steam are more likely to vote therefore your poll question is skewed from the start.  

Why are players who want steam more likely to vote?  And I'm sure there is a proportionally similar number of people who support steam but also consider voting a waste of time.

7 minutes ago, sburke said:

Oh crap, you aren’t going to bring real facts into this discussion are you?  Oh geez there goes the neighborhood. 

These numbers don't mean much without stats for Combat Mission.  Or stats for these games on and off steam.

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Posted (edited)

If you can’t understand why a steam supporter would be more likely to vote you need to take a few UX classes. And how sure are you? Based on?  I deal with a lot of UX folks and have been exposed to the whole psychology of surveys, how you ask questions, what can be leading questions etc.  I know you’d like this to be cut and dried especially as the small sample size is already in favor of what you want.  Unfortunately if you really want an honest appraisal versus vindication of your own opinion, you’ll need to work a bit harder at it.  Just saying. 

As to the stats,yes they are pretty clear. Again they don’t support your theory so you are well prepared to discard them.  You are clearly operating from bias.  Not that your response is totally invalid, but in both cases you immediately defend the position you want to be right versus agreeing that that particular piece of data doesn’t support your argument. 

Edited by sburke

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7 minutes ago, sburke said:

If you can’t understand why a steam supporter would be more likely to vote you need to take a few UX classes. And how sure are you? Based on?  I deal with a lot of UX folks and have been exposed to the whole psychology of surveys, how you ask questions, what can be leading questions etc.  I know you’d like this to be cut and dried especially as the small sample size is already in favor of what you want.  Unfortunately if you really want an honest appraisal versus vindication of your own opinion, you’ll need to work a bit harder at it.  Just saying. 

As to the stats,yes they are pretty clear. Again they don’t support your theory so you are well prepared to discard them.  You are clearly operating from bias.  Not that your response is totally invalid, but in both cases you immediately defend the position you want to be right versus agreeing that that particular piece of data doesn’t support your argument. 

My response to the stats isn't really biased.  They're one set of numbers and the other sets to compare against would be helpful.  Also is there a basis for that the majority of players don't support CM on steam?  

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2 minutes ago, Sulomon said:

My response to the stats isn't really biased.  They're one set of numbers and the other sets to compare against would be helpful.  Also is there a basis for that the majority of players don't support CM on steam?  

Sure. Good luck with that survey.  Hope it knocks one out of the park. Ignore the doubters, full steam ahead (pun intended)

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5 minutes ago, Sulomon said:

Why are players who want steam more likely to vote?  And I'm sure there is a proportionally similar number of people who support steam but also consider voting a waste of time.

These numbers don't mean much without stats for Combat Mission.  Or stats for these games on and off steam.

The numbers represent a trend of interest in tactical wargames. Which happens to be minimal. A good counter-point would be that players playing the game doesn't equal to players buying the game. Steam is full of archivists. Also here's the stats for the Close Combat games:

Gateway to Caen: 17.6 (players per day, average of 30 days)

Panthers in the Fog: 8.9 (players per day, average of 30 days)

Men of War: Assault Squad 2: 1311.3

A little bit higher than the others in our tactical wargames genre -- still, considerably small compared to more "arcade-y" titles. Not a perfect stat analysis -- I do welcome better ones.

I like Steam, especially the sales. I am just saying that if I was BFC, I'd probably focus on my core audience or make a game geared towards Steam, and its systems. Something like MoW:AS 2 or Steel Division/Wargame is designed for Steam users, and is therefore, moderately successful on Steam. Also, I didn't see the strawpoll and didn't vote.

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49 minutes ago, DerKommissar said:

The numbers represent a trend of interest in tactical wargames. Which happens to be minimal. A good counter-point would be that players playing the game doesn't equal to players buying the game. Steam is full of archivists. Also here's the stats for the Close Combat games:

Gateway to Caen: 17.6 (players per day, average of 30 days)

Panthers in the Fog: 8.9 (players per day, average of 30 days)

Men of War: Assault Squad 2: 1311.3

A little bit higher than the others in our tactical wargames genre -- still, considerably small compared to more "arcade-y" titles. Not a perfect stat analysis -- I do welcome better ones.

I like Steam, especially the sales. I am just saying that if I was BFC, I'd probably focus on my core audience or make a game geared towards Steam, and its systems. Something like MoW:AS 2 or Steel Division/Wargame is designed for Steam users, and is therefore, moderately successful on Steam. Also, I didn't see the strawpoll and didn't vote.

The obvious counterpoint is that publishers wouldn't keep putting games like CMANO, Close Combat and Gary Grigsby's Hexagonal Funhouse if it wasn't making them money.

Honestly one of the best features Steam used to offer, exposure, is no longer one of its strengths as they've opened the floodgates in the last couple of years resulting in quite the deluge of garbage.

I don't see how Steel Division is more "designed" for Steam than any other title, including Combat Mission, but I will say that I've converted 2 Steel Division players who had never even heard of Battlefront into Combat Mission owners. The game is more attractive I think than people here give it credit for.

 

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1 minute ago, SgtHatred said:

 

The game is more attractive I think than people here give it credit for.

I just keep telling them CM has a really nice personality, you saying maybe that is not the best lure?

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It should be borne in mind (is that the correct turn of phrase?) that Steam is a 'parasite' organization. One of a growing number of companies who insert themselves between the developer and the customer and skim profits off the top. At my local gas station the attendant ask if I'm paying by cash or charge. Because 'charge' means the credit card company skims some of the profit off the top so they're obliged to charge more for the gas to make up the difference.

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19 hours ago, Heirloom_Tomato said:

She will be turning 16 in December. Her Grade 10 History Class covered Canadian History from 1900 to present day and of course I was a big help for her WW1 and WW2 sections. When she asked if I had any books on the role of Canada in WW2 and I brought her 15 books..... lets just say her project on Juno Beach was the best in the class! 

[snip]

Would she mind sending a copy of her project? Hint, hint, hint...I'm quite far into a scenario project (huge) that centers on the Courseulles-sur-Mer part of Juno where the Canadians landed. Was inspired by Mark Zuehlke's Juno trilogy that I'm sure you got her.

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43 minutes ago, MikeyD said:

It should be borne in mind (is that the correct turn of phrase?) that Steam is a 'parasite' organization. One of a growing number of companies who insert themselves between the developer and the customer and skim profits off the top. At my local gas station the attendant ask if I'm paying by cash or charge. Because 'charge' means the credit card company skims some of the profit off the top so they're obliged to charge more for the gas to make up the difference.

...

I keep trying to avoid the primary debate here because I think it is meaningless. Steve's made his decision and this has all been hashed out before, but you guys keep coming up with these crazy arguments. Valve (the company that runs Steam) is no more a parasite than the guy who collects my garbage, delivers my pizza, or any of the other products and services I buy. Valve provides services in exchange for money to the publishers of various games. Given its popularity with publishers who haven't spent the time to create their own distribution system, I imagine at least some think that it is worth it.

 

Hell. The credit card company isn't a parasite either. They provide a service in exchange for money. I imagine the gas station in your example would eliminate the credit option if they felt it was losing them money, but then they'd lose out on all the people who need to use a credit card, or simply find it convenient.

Edited by SgtHatred

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53 minutes ago, sburke said:

I just keep telling them CM has a really nice personality, you saying maybe that is not the best lure?

The dephts of her soul and complexity of character is the main lure.

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3 minutes ago, SgtHatred said:

...

I keep trying to avoid the primary debate here because I think it is meaningless. Steve's made his decision and this has all been hashed out before, but you guys keep coming up with these crazy arguments. Valve (the company that runs Steam) is no more a parasite than the guy who collects my garbage, delivers my pizza, or any of the other products and services I buy. Valve provides services in exchange for money to the publishers of various games. Given its popularity with publishers who haven't spent the time to create their own distribution system, I imagine at least some think that it is worth it.

Yeah much of the anti-steam sentiment seems to come from misunderstandings or trivial issues.

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41 minutes ago, Sulomon said:

Yeah much of the anti-steam sentiment seems to come from misunderstandings or trivial issues.

or just not liking steam.  Please I appreciate you preferring it but don't try and categorize those of us who care little for it.  

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43 minutes ago, Sulomon said:

Yeah much of the anti-steam sentiment seems to come from misunderstandings or trivial issues.

So, now you are saying that BF and Steve etc are so incompetent that they misunderstand...  You should write them a proposal making your case to them and pointing out what they misunderstand and maybe not waste your time beating a dead horse on these forums.

Simples...   :blink:

Edited by Erwin

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17 minutes ago, Erwin said:

So, now you are saying that BF and Steve etc are so incompetent that they misunderstand...  You should write them a proposal making your case to them and pointing out what they misunderstand and maybe not waste your time beating a dead horse on these forums.

Simples...   :blink:

This is extremely spicy.  I understand you don't know things such as computer basics so I won't blame you for not having good reading comprehension but that couldn't be more wrong.  I'm obviously referring to the people who don't like steam running on startup, lan play etc.  I've made no hint that Steve keeps away from steam for trivial misunderstandings.

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Quote

The game is more attractive I think than people here give it credit for.

This... I've recently gotten a friend of mine, who more usually likes to pretend he's a dark elf witch priestess with magic powers, into Shock Force ONE.

Battlefront don't "need" Valve so much as they need exposure.

 

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1 hour ago, Sulomon said:

Yeah much of the anti-steam sentiment seems to come from misunderstandings or trivial issues.

Well, Battlefront's issue with it is pretty straight forward. They don't think they'll make back the cost with added revenue. In the past I always thought that they were too pessimistic about Combat Mission's appeal, but whatever. Of course soon Battlefront.com will look less like an abandoned website from the 90s, while Steam has opened the Valve on a metric tonne of crap. Steam is definitely a worse choice now than it was just 2 years ago.

 

As for the Cheerleading brigade, meh. I think you may be expecting too much from them.

Edited by SgtHatred

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5 hours ago, SgtHatred said:

Honestly one of the best features Steam used to offer, exposure, is no longer one of its strengths as they've opened the floodgates in the last couple of years resulting in quite the deluge of garbage.

I agree with this point 100%. Been on steam for almost eight years. Being on the front page of Steam is/was like being on the world stage. However, the amount of trash that steam allows in really doesn't help. I haven't put much thought into this so I'm sure there's a reason they're doing it. Small devs need cash too. But it definitely f'ed Steam up.

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