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On 6/2/2018 at 4:39 PM, IICptMillerII said:

Thanks for the update! Everything sounds great. Glad we got a status update on the website overhaul. While I have never had any issues with the current website, I can understand the many reasons as to why an upgrade is needed. It sounds like the website upgrade ended up taking more time and resources than originally expected. If nothing more I will be happy with the new website because it will hopefully mean one less project getting in the way of all the other projects.

The problem with the website upgrade is we paid someone to make the overall structure for us.  That was a pretty good chunk of change and I think it's worth it.  However, you can't pay someone who doesn't know a thing about your products or your customer base to do the content for the site itself.  Screenshots, descriptions, heading off tech support issues before they happen, etc.  Er, actually you COULD pay someone to try and do that, but wow... talk about predictably flushing money down the drain!

The result is the site's been sitting functional but empty for more than a year because we've prioritized game development.  For a variety of reasons, we finally had to put time into it.  The architecture the current site is working on is really old.

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I'm personally of the opinion that posting constant mini updates is more detrimental than beneficial. Those who want to complain will always find a way to do so. I prefer getting updates when there is something to show, but that's just me.

That is certainly something we've learned over the years... no matter what we do, no matter how we do it, someone will always be out there shooting their mouth off that we've done it wrong.  And if we start doing it the way they say we should do it, guess what?  Somehow that will be all wrong as well.  Some people like to complain for no other reason than to complain.  They're great examples of Humanity :D

Instead of trying to please people who can not be pleased, we do things the way that seems to work best.  From our 20 year perspective of interacting with you all, we're convinced that it's better to do periodic updates are better than instead of a slow trickle of non-news, updates that really don't update anybody, and guesses at release dates that are no better than the previous ones.  Plus, it takes a lot of time to make announcements and manage the discussions.  I put in the equivalent of a full day's time for this latest round (if someone doesn't understand why, obviously they've never had to do it themselves).  In the big picture that's a small investment, but at the tactical level when you're eyeballs deep in a half dozen other things it matters.  A lot.

Though as I said up front, this was a bit longer than "periodic" and that's our bad.

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However I do wish there was a little more communication on the patch. I have no problem waiting for new content to be released when it is ready, but I view things like patches to be a bit more pressing. Glad to hear we will be getting an update on the patch sometime this Sunday. Hopefully it is good news!

Understandable.  It's coming in a few hours.

Steve

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@BrotherSurplice made me aware of this interview Steve gave to Rock Paper Shotgun a few days ago. Gave it a read and enjoyed it. Always fun to see what Steve says to other people instead of us forum-goers. There is also a bit of a tease about CMSF2 pre-orders coming "very soon" in the interview.

Note: Scroll down past the ship games for the interview

https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2018/06/08/the-flare-path-this-and-that/

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2 hours ago, IICptMillerII said:

@BrotherSurplice made me aware of this interview Steve gave to Rock Paper Shotgun a few days ago. Gave it a read and enjoyed it. Always fun to see what Steve says to other people instead of us forum-goers. There is also a bit of a tease about CMSF2 pre-orders coming "very soon" in the interview.

Note: Scroll down past the ship games for the interview

https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2018/06/08/the-flare-path-this-and-that/

+1

"First of all because the vast bulk of the Steam customer base hates games like ours, which means the bulk of what Steam has to offer us (tons of customers) has zero practical value to us." - Steve

I'm not a hardcore Steam fan, and I don't really care if they go on Steam or not. But I thought I'd take a look at the numbers.

Steve might be right that the vast bulk of Steam users hate Combat Mission, who knows? But even then, Steam now has 18,5 million users.

If just one in a hundred of those users has the intelligence and interest in realistic WW2 games required to be a match for Combat Mission, that's 185,000 potential customers. If just half of those actually purchase one game, that's 92,500 customers times 60 dollars = $5,550,000 (before Steam cut).

I don't know if that amount of money would be peanuts for a game development company the size of BattleFront.

And of course, I'm not saying Steve can't use a pocket calculator. He obviously has his reasons for doing what he does. I'd just like to challenge the "zero practical value" part of the argument.

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Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, Bulletpoint said:

I'm not a hardcore Steam fan, and I don't really care if they go on Steam or not. But I thought I'd take a look at the numbers.

Steve might be right that the vast bulk of Steam users hate Combat Mission, who knows? But even then, Steam now has 18,5 million users.

If just one in a hundred of those users has the intelligence and interest in realistic WW2 games required to be a match for Combat Mission, that's 185,000

Agreed, I much prefer games that are on Steam. The purchasing, downloading,  and everything else is so much easier than having to search for download links on a game developer's home page. And as you said, of all the millions of Steam users, there must be quite a few that are potential Combat Mission customers.

Edited by JSj

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Posted (edited)

This is a dead, dead, dead, dead, dead, dead, dead, dead, dead, dead, horse. Pursing this topic will only end in tears and more dead horse.

 

Mord.

Edited by Mord

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1 hour ago, Mord said:

This is a dead, dead, dead, dead, dead, dead, dead, dead, dead, dead, horse. Pursing this topic will only end in tears and more dead horse.

Some people are God Emperors of Dune, some are merely excellent equine necromancers :)

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But what is death, really? With a name like Mordante, I know you’re familiar with, and probably a bit concerned about, the Lazarus Syndrome.  Why not beat the horse a bit more, just to make sure? Better safe than sorry!

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4 hours ago, Mord said:

This is a dead, dead, dead, dead, dead, dead, dead, dead, dead, dead, horse. Pursing this topic will only end in tears and more dead horse.

Before the others show up with sticks here is how this goes...

Someone will explain Steve's reasons for not jumping on steam. Rather than do that here he is in his own words (make sure the link takes you to that comment):

 

Then there will be a ton of back and forth and meanness and name calling. It you want to experience it just read the rest of the thread. When it all ends it can be summed up in a few paragraphs:

It is now up to you guys if you want to read the long version or the short version and then you can choose if you want to repeat history or not.

:D

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27 minutes ago, IanL said:

It is now up to you guys if you want to read the long version or the short version and then you can choose if you want to repeat history or not.

 

When that thread was written, back in January 2015, Steam had 8.5 million users. It now has 18.5 million users.

I don't know at what point it would tip the risk/reward business case into positive territory, but I thought it was interesting.

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19 minutes ago, Bulletpoint said:

When that thread was written, back in January 2015, Steam had 8.5 million users. It now has 18.5 million users.

I don't know at what point it would tip the risk/reward business case into positive territory, but I thought it was interesting.

I don't know either but I would guess no number would be high enough. The amount of work to retrofit the Steam code requirements is non trivial. We all saw the angst that going quite with info and no content released caused. Can you imagine what it would be like to go that long or longer for just Steam and no new content at all? Just adding more users in the pile doesn't really help much. Kinda like if I went to a busy street downtown and stopped everyone I could to talk up Combat Mission I highly doubt it would make much difference if I engaged 1000 people or a million people. Yes, I know the downtown street corner of random people are not gamers but honestly my gamer friends are not the least bit interested in CM either. I am constantly pitching and demoing the game - not a single bite from one of them. True I'm still a ways off 1000 but still :)

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Posted (edited)

And imagine if all those STEAM users then started asking for CM to be more like a FPS etc - more like Call of Duty, or one of the real time games, or StarWars franchise...  

The fact is that this a tiny tiny niche within a niche.  Look at the huge success (not) of board wargames marketwise compared to "family games"? 

STEAM appeals to a completely different market and demographic and if BF ever decided to pander to that market am confident the new CM game system that would evolve due to market pressure would no longer appeal to the very people who are here on this board.

Edited by Erwin

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4 minutes ago, Erwin said:

And imagine if all those STEAM users then started asking for CM to be more like a FPS etc - more like Call of Duty, or one of the real time games, or StarWars franchise...  

This may actually be the least rational thing I've ever read on this board.

Yeah, I just checked the Steam pages for Gary Grigsby's War in the East and CMANO and neither are FPS games yet.

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Posted (edited)
38 minutes ago, Erwin said:

And imagine if all those STEAM users then started asking for CM to be more like a FPS etc - more like Call of Duty, or one of the real time games, or StarWars franchise...  

I'm sure Steve has a Wookie costume somewhere he could put on and do a little dance if his new fickle STEAM overlords demanded it :D

Because obviously they must be obeyed.

Edited by Bulletpoint

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30 minutes ago, SgtHatred said:

This may actually be the least rational thing I've ever read on this board.

Yeah, I just checked the Steam pages for Gary Grigsby's War in the East and CMANO and neither are FPS games yet.

This.  Numerous niche games on steam do good and stay niche, Gary Grigsby isn't turning into HOIV.

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, Bulletpoint said:

Some people are God Emperors of Dune, some are merely excellent equine necromancers :)

image.png.af6ac0bce790bc6defe3b3fa3917f543.png

Edited by Badger73

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Still can't understand why some folks care so much to keep pushing Steam on and on... and on... when it's so clearly not wanted by BF or most players on these forums - just the same 3 or 4 people.   Is there an agenda here?

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Just now, Erwin said:

Still can't understand why some folks care so much to keep pushing Steam on and on... and on... when it's so clearly not wanted by BF or most players on these forums - just the same 3 or 4 people.   Is there an agenda here?

It's the Deep State and the Russian "Government". I think they've both teamed up against you, but don't tell them I said that because the cheques will stop.

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Posted (edited)

Haven't teamed up vs little old me.  They are going on and on... and on... against BF and what Steve has said many, many... many... times what he prefers.   Reminds one of religious fanatics.

The phrase "Beating a dead horse." comes to mind.

There are only a few dozen frequent posters on these forums.  There's no quorum.  Am confident that BF is much more tuned to their larger market of people who do not care to post here.

Edited by Erwin

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12 minutes ago, Sulomon said:

https://strawpoll.com/2dy52w8f
I know this isn't a democracy but here's a strawpoll.  The question is "Do you think Combat Mission would benefit from being on Steam?" with the options yes, no, and neutral.

None of this matters.  It is a BF business decision and they have said no, repeatedly.  We do not get to have a say in that.  Whether you agree or disagree is up to you, but our opinions are not going to change Steve's mind.  :D 

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10 minutes ago, Erwin said:

Haven't teamed up vs little old me.

Not at all Erwin.. I laughed a bit about what you said, but we're on the same team :)

Obviously you're right in that it's up to Battlefront to make their own decisions, and that they know what they are doing with their own company. But if you read the interview that was linked to above, Steve isn't actually dead set against going on Steam; he says it's a business decision where he weighs the pros and cons.

I just thought it was interesting to look up the growth of the Steam marketplace size in recent years.

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8 minutes ago, sburke said:

None of this matters.  It is a BF business decision and they have said no, repeatedly.  We do not get to have a say in that.  Whether you agree or disagree is up to you, but our opinions are not going to change Steve's mind.  :D 

I know I'm just curious.  Personally I think more CM players would say that CM on steam is beneficial than say it is not beneficial.

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