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Can anyone explain why enemy units commonly face away from the front line? I encounter this often in CMBN and CMRT scenarios. For example, I'm currently investing time in the CMRT scenario "Getting Ugly". Enemy tanks moved forward (towards my forces) and then ended up in positions facing away from my forces towards the direction they drove from. My guess is that this is an artifact of the Upgrade 4. 

 

 

 

 

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I noticed it before Engine 4 was introduced, so i don't think it is that. Whether it comes from an AI plan not taking into account impassable terrain I'm not sure. To be honest, I need all the help I can get playing CMx2, so I'm quite happy to blast rear facing tanks.

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Posted (edited)

Upgrade 4.0 actually adds facing commands to the AI orders available to scenario designers- so upgrade 4.0 is actually capable of avoiding the behavior you are seeing- but it needs to be planned by the designer. Since this is a release scenario (can't remember who did that one off the top of my head, but nice map!), the 4.0 upgrade behaviors were not available.

After a very quick look at the scenario in the Editor- If you are playing as the German side- the instructions let you know that this scenario is designed to be played as the Soviet side- so I'd proceed with the understanding that it may be too easy for an experienced player (as German). I think that the AI in attack won't be as potentially difficult to deal with without the "face" command and "area fire"  that are now available to the scenario designer with the 4.0 upgrade.

I'd expect the AI plan to be more varied if playing as intended (as Soviets) as well. That said, I know we scenario and campaign designers will be using the new commands to make for more challenging defensive fights vs. AI attackers (and as defenders) in the future 4.0 titles. As always, it is an AI, not a human player, etc.- that said,  I only play vs. the AI- so these new 4.0 changes are very useful for designers, rather than being a cause of irrational behaviors in this particular case.

 

Edited by benpark

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Yepp...the face command introduced with the V4 update is a very good one ! :)

Previously the AI-units would end their move by ROTATING towards their NEXT waypoint...Very frustrating at times...The V4 update fixed this problem...Thank you !

Another neat feature of the V4 update is the REVERSE feature...This, for the first time, alows scenario designers to program shoot-n-scoot move for the AI...

I don't know if this is what the scenario designer is trying to do in your particular case mention above...having some armour move forward...wait a short while...and then withdraw back again...Pre V4 there was no REVERSE command. Before this update the vehicles would need to turn around i place (exposing their rear to the enemy) to be able to withdraw towards the same direction they came from...

If the scenariodesigner in this scenario have placed the next waypoint for this particular AI Group behind them...like mentioned...this would expain the AI behavior seen here.

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35 minutes ago, RepsolCBR said:

Previously the AI-units would end their move by ROTATING towards their NEXT waypoint...

Pre V4 there was no REVERSE command. Before this update the vehicles would need to turn around i place (exposing their rear to the enemy) to be able to withdraw towards the same direction they came from...

If the scenariodesigner in this scenario have placed the next waypoint for this particular AI Group behind them...like mentioned...this would expain the AI behavior seen here.

IMO this is a good explanation of what probably happened.  +1

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Posted (edited)

I've noticed this behaviour in my own testing.....I'm sure there is another discussion of this subject somewhere.

It seems that the AI doesn't recognise the significance of a reverse move order and that even adding a face order doesn't prevent the unwanted facing change toward the new waypoint.

PS - Editing comments on an iPad is a nightmare.

Edited by Sgt.Squarehead

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Sgt.Squarehead said:

 

It seems that the AI doesn't recognise the significance of a reverse move order and that even adding a face order doesn't prevent the unwanted facing change toward the new waypoint.

 

That sounds wierd...It's been a while now since i did any work in the editor but when i tried these features they worked very well...both the facing and the reverse feature worked as intended...

With regards to the reverse order...Are you placing the reverse marker in the correct location ? I might be wrong about this but IIRC the reverse marker should be placed infront of the previous waypoint location (The starting location of the AI-Group doing the reverse move)...kind of ordering the AI-Group to be facing in THAT direction while moving to the next waypoint (the one behind them).

The actual painting of the waypoint location for the reversemove should be behind the 'current' location...(the Place you wan't the AI-Group to reverse to)...

If you place the reverse marker behind the 'current' AI-Group location instead of infront of it (ordering the facing direction)...The reverse feature may not work as intended...

I belive this is how it works...

 

 

 

Edited by RepsolCBR

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I've gotten back into building AI orders sets recently and the V4 commands are pretty freaking amazing, IMHO.

Reverse command in the AI is easy. You paint a normal destination point for the turn then you place a second shift-click point to designate the direction you're backing away from. Vehicles will pop smoke and reverse away from that point to their destination. Infantry will conduct a 'fighting withdrawal' rather like assault except the leap-frogging units will turn to face the retreat point on their way to the destination.

The new 'area fire' AI order works much the same. You paint a normal destination area for the turn then control-click paint a second area for the unit to area fire on until the next order set starts.

For the AI 'face' command you paint a normal destination area for the turn then ALT-click a second spot for your unit to face after they've arrived. I've never seen it not work.

Scenarios have AI orders sets only as complex as the designer thought necessary. Some are downright balletic in their complex coordinated movements. Others are basic. Defensive units sitting waiting for an attack may have no AI orders at all, just relying on AI automatic reactions to events.

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Posted (edited)

Cheers lads.....All a bit academic for me right now as my p00ter just shuffled off this mortal coil.....  :rolleyes:

PS - My nephew uninstalled CMTouch on the iPad, so I'm totally CMless.....Probably do my modelling some good I suppose.

Edited by Sgt.Squarehead

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On 5/12/2018 at 10:13 AM, MikeyD said:

...Reverse command in the AI is easy. You paint a normal destination point for the turn then you place a second shift-click point to designate the direction you're backing away from. Vehicles will pop smoke and reverse away from that point to their destination. Infantry will conduct a 'fighting withdrawal' rather like assault except the leap-frogging units will turn to face the retreat point on their way to the destination...

Recently, I did some testing with infantry and couldn't get them to face the retreat point. They popped smoke and did the leapfrogging towards their destination, but multiple tries yielded no units turning to face the retreat point. I was using a German company.

AFVs do pretty well as long as routes and units are straightforward. If the designer doesn't keep things tight with his units and painted zones, his vehicles may still do goofy things and/or turn side/rear towards the enemy.

Oh, a tip on the AI Area fire order and T-34/76s. Using the order causes the tank commander to stay down in the turret, even if the tank is unbuttoned. Thus, it's a handy way to keep your AI tank commanders from getting taken out, and with the massive HE loadaout, you don't really need to worry about the ammo usage. It does take their attention away from opportunity targets a bit, but I'd say it's often worth it to keep the TC safe.

If you want to see this in action, try this scenario.

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