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Don't know if this is common knowledge, but it isn't in the manual; engineers can blast vineyards. Pretty big holes for each demo charge. Can come in handy to make shortcuts through otherwise hopeless terrain that provides good concealment.

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1 hour ago, rocketman said:

Don't know if this is common knowledge, but it isn't in the manual; engineers can blast vineyards. Pretty big holes for each demo charge. Can come in handy to make shortcuts through otherwise hopeless terrain that provides good concealment.

Thanks, good to know.  Vineyards are hard on wheeled and tracked vehicles  and depending on the direction of the rows block infantry.  A jeep can be immobilized after crossing just two rows.   The vineyards are usually 15+ rows wide and often perpendicular to my avenue of advance :angry:.   Artillery can help clear a path if your vehicles don't bog in the craters and if said craters more or less form a path through the vineyard.  A combination of artillery, a few demo charges and sacrificing one tracked vehicle may create a path from one side of the vineyard to the other side.  Thanks for the demo charge info.  Don't think I ever tried that.  +1  :)  

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Vineyards ruin tracked vehicles pretty soon as well. So going through them is not adviced at all. Depending on the blast location, the max I think is three rows with one blast. Since most engineers carry plenty of demos and they clear atleast one per turn, you can clear a lot with some planning.

BTW, tested flamethrowers as well but they don't destroy vineyards. Didn't expect them to TBO.

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1 hour ago, rocketman said:

BTW, tested flamethrowers as well but they don't destroy vineyards. 

They just roast the grapes. Nice to know about the demo charges though.

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2 hours ago, rocketman said:

three rows with one blast.

This I didn't know either.  If you can get three rows per demo charge this is a much better return on demo charges.  I'll have to try this in the future.    

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15 hours ago, rocketman said:

Don't know if this is common knowledge, but it isn't in the manual; engineers can blast vineyards. 

That is cool. I never knew that either.

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On May 5, 2018 at 1:41 PM, MOS:96B2P said:

...depending on the direction of the rows block infantry.

I think that might not necessarily be the case. Back when FI came out, I played a couple of battles where crossing vinyards was necessary or at least expedient. After messing around with it, I found that you could get infantry to move across the grain if you gave them movement commands on both sides of each row. That seemed to discipline them away from taking "shortcuts" around the end of the row and exposing themselves to fire in the process. As I say, this was quite a while back, so I can't vouch for whether this still works or not, but you might give it a try.

Michael

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12 minutes ago, Michael Emrys said:

I think that might not necessarily be the case. Back when FI came out, I played a couple of battles where crossing vinyards was necessary or at least expedient. After messing around with it, I found that you could get infantry to move across the grain if you gave them movement commands on both sides of each row. That seemed to discipline them away from taking "shortcuts" around the end of the row and exposing themselves to fire in the process. As I say, this was quite a while back, so I can't vouch for whether this still works or not, but you might give it a try.

Michael

I think you might be onto something there. I have am pretty sure I have see this happen but did not know why/how.

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55 minutes ago, Michael Emrys said:

I think that might not necessarily be the case. Back when FI came out, I played a couple of battles where crossing vinyards was necessary or at least expedient. After messing around with it, I found that you could get infantry to move across the grain if you gave them movement commands on both sides of each row. That seemed to discipline them away from taking "shortcuts" around the end of the row and exposing themselves to fire in the process. As I say, this was quite a while back, so I can't vouch for whether this still works or not, but you might give it a try.

Michael

It can still be done, but it is slow going and if you take fire and the unit becomes distressed they can start to deviate from the intended path with truly bad results.

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15 hours ago, Michael Emrys said:

I found that you could get infantry to move across the grain if you gave them movement commands on both sides of each row. That seemed to discipline them away from taking "shortcuts" around the end of the row  <Snip>

Thanks for the information.  I just tried it on my test map and had a difficult time trying to make it work.  The problem is Action Spots (A/S) are 8x8 meters and the rows are closer together.  This doesn't allow a waypoint to be placed on each side of every row.  I was able to place the infantry waypoints every eight meters but they still did the end run.  My vineyards were only 48 meters (6 A/S) wide.  Maybe if the ends were further apart (longer rows) or if there was no-go terrain (deep water) at the ends it might work. 

Thanks for posting.  Something to think about with the new module for CMFI coming out this year.   :)

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4 hours ago, MOS:96B2P said:

Thanks for the information.  I just tried it on my test map and had a difficult time trying to make it work.  The problem is Action Spots (A/S) are 8x8 meters and the rows are closer together.  This doesn't allow a waypoint to be placed on each side of every row.  I was able to place the infantry waypoints every eight meters but they still did the end run.  My vineyards were only 48 meters (6 A/S) wide.  Maybe if the ends were further apart (longer rows) or if there was no-go terrain (deep water) at the ends it might work. 

Thanks for posting.  Something to think about with the new module for CMFI coming out this year.   :)

I noticed this too, as infantry sometimes follow the "path of least resistance" and prefer a longer but "easier" route. So I tried a map covered from edge to edge with vineyard and dropped engineers in it. I noticed two important things:

  1. For every consecutive blast command you string together one demo charge is deducted from the inventory. So 8 straight blast commands will deduct 8 demo charges immediately on fist turn. This goes well for three-four blasts, but then the engineers abandon their task altogether.
  2. Doing on blast command per turn is slower, but assures the correct procedure.

Conclusion: better safe than sorry so stick with 2) and be wary that the squad might go in another direction if the vineyard is small or if they get close to its edge.

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