A test of some spotting issues with crops in CMFB

[Bulletpoint]

I did a little test of spotting through crops in CMFB.

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Here we have a tank crew. The guy on the left is sitting in XT (extra tall) grass. The guys on the right are sitting in crops. It's clear that the XT grass is much taller than the crops.

 

Using a tall tank (Panther in this case), it's easily possible to target the other side of the tall grass.

 

 

However, the crops block LOS very effectively, even though the crops are much shorter than the grass.

 

I'm guessing the problem could be that the graphics of the crops have been changed to look like autumn, but that the game still treats the crops as tall summer plants, blocking LOS.

[Xorg_Xalargsky]

As far as I'm aware, due to gameplay and performance reasons, the LOS-obstructing qualities of foliage, plants, and crops does not correspond exactly to their in-game appearance.

On the top of my head, I know that wheat, for example, is treated as higher than what is shown (so you can see your own troops!) while tree leaves offer much less coverage than what you might assume.

[Glubokii Boy]

From 1700 meters (or is it 1200 ?) i wounder if the spotters a looking OVER the terrain (crop, tall grass) to be able to see the GROUND on the immidiate other side of the obstruction or are they looking THROUGH it...?

Edited March 24, 2018 by RepsolCBR

[Bulletpoint]

18 minutes ago, RepsolCBR said:

From 1700 meters (or is it 1200 ?) i wounder if the spotters a looking OVER the terrain (crop, tall grass) to be able to see the GROUND on the immidiate other side of the obstruction or are they looking THROUGH it...?

At this range (1255m), the tank is basically trying to look through the crops.

I did some more testing, and if I move the tank closer, it will start to look over the crops.

The grass, however, never blocks LOS at any distance.

Actually that's not quite true. Tall grass causes very sparse, patchy LOS blocking, seemingly without any pattern.

Edited March 24, 2018 by Bulletpoint

[Glubokii Boy]

Maybe the 'densety' of the terrain plays a part...Tall grass you will be able to see through...crop-terrain is a bit more dense and does not allow for this quite so easily (perhaps)...

What happens if you increase the depth of the tall grass...Extend the tall grass field by adding something like 10 to 15 additional tiles to that field in the direction of the spotter....

If they are looking OVER the grass it should really not matter...but if they are looking THROUGH  it...it should ! LOS ought to be blocked by such a wide field...

 

[Sgt.Squarehead]

9 minutes ago, RepsolCBR said:

Maybe the 'densety' of the terrain plays a part...

That would be my assumption.

[Bulletpoint]

18 minutes ago, RepsolCBR said:

Maybe the 'densety' of the terrain plays a part...Tall grass you will be able to see through...crop-terrain is a bit more dense and does not allow for this quite so easily (perhaps)...

What happens if you increase the depth of the tall grass...Extend the tall grass field by adding something like 10 to 15 additional tiles to that field in the direction of the spotter....

You're right. Just tested it out. A much deeper field of XT grass and Tall grass starts to block LOS too, but the target line penetrates farther into the grass before it gets blocked.

[Glubokii Boy]

OK...

Thanks for testing it 

[Bud Backer]

Thanks for sharing this, Bulletpoint. Nice work, and helpful info. 

[Sgt.Squarehead]

Just out of interest, does the 'density' of the various crop-types in any way correspond with their numbering in the editor?  It would be handy if it did. 

[A Canadian Cat]

1 hour ago, Sgt.Squarehead said:

does the 'density' of the various crop-types in any way correspond with their numbering in the editor?

No, it does not.

[Bulletpoint]

One thing I keep wondering about though is whether there would be any crops in the fields of the Ardennes in December/January?

I think the crops would be harvested that time of yeaar, leaving fields as stubble or plowed.

In case the local people fled, the crops would quickly be beaten down by wind and rain that time of year. Leaving a dense mess that wouldn't be very tall..

Edited March 31, 2018 by Bulletpoint

[Bud Backer]

A lot of normal activities were disrupted by the war. I’ve seen photos of fields that were clearly harvested, as you suggest, but that would not happen universally, as you also said.

Where I think you may be mistaken is in assuming that crops would be laid flat by the elements. 

While this is not impossible, I can tell you that I see plenty of crops that for one reason or another are not harvested where I live, and they are dead and still standing after a severe winter the following year. It depends on the crop of course, but it’s certainly not been unusual to see fields that are still impenetrable months after frost killed them, at least from a LOS perspective. 

Edited March 31, 2018 by Bud Backer

[user1000]

un fixable..