Jump to content

Recommended Posts

What? We bought T80s? Also to confirm - T84M are the ones represented in the game. They have the same hull and a new turret? As opposed to the T80 which is pictured above? I knew only the UK verson had shtora which added to my confusion. I was under the impression Ukraine kept the T84M's at least. 

They seem a little overrepresented in the game all of a sudden. 

:P

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
14 hours ago, DerKommissar said:

I am sure those are T-84s, but not Oplots.

58a1228a1f5b0.jpg

IMG_6841-768x512.jpg

IMG_6842-696x464.jpg

No thermals, and no bustle. I want my money back.

Also,

What's up with the turrets anyway? These look like theyre straight off the T-90A. I thought T80 turrets were similar to T72, sharing the boob shape. 

Thanks guys. 

Edited by Artkin

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I always thought I was fairly decent at tank recognition...until the Soviets/Russians started with the whole T-72 family and the various offshoots. Sigh.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, c3k said:

I always thought I was fairly decent at tank recognition...until the Soviets/Russians started with the whole T-72 family and the various offshoots. Sigh.

The ERA just makes their silhouettes even more confusing.

I have a Jane's tank identification book from the 2000s lying around somewhere, with really good photos. So, my knowledge of the Ukranian T-80 variants is from that, and could be outdated. So I decided to do some research:

t80ud.jpg

This is a diesel T-80U that entered production in Ukraine a few years prior to the collapse. After the collapse, these could not be made because they relied on parts from other ex-republics. So, around 320 of these were exported, in the 1990s, to Pakistan. That is when the new RF began exporting its T-90s, a customer of which, was India. The T-84 was designed as a completely domestic T-80.

t84_l4.jpg

On this one, it is hard to see, but the new domestic T-84 had a all-welded turret. Each vehicle now had Shtora modules, as opposed to just the K (command) variants previously. Armament remained the same and the diesel engine was slightly improved. This one entered service in 1999, and saw further modifications (ie. diesel engine, armour modules).

oplot.jpg

An Oplot is a T-84 with all-welded turret, Shtora, and new ERA. The new ERA are the distinguishing feature. The T-84s originally posted are T-84 Oplots. The question is: if you take a non-Oplot T-84 and slap new ERA on it, is it an Oplot?

10 hours ago, Artkin said:

Also,

What's up with the turrets anyway? These look like theyre straight off the T-90A. I thought T80 turrets were similar to T72, sharing the boob shape. 

Thanks guys. 

The development of the T-84 and the T-90 happened in parallel, and both competed for international sales. Who thought up the welded turret first, T-90A or T-84 Oplot? I do not know.

oplot_m.jpg

This is the T-84 Oplot-M that we know and love. This one was first unveiled in 2008, and was ordered by Thailand and Pakistan. The first big difference is the panoramic thermal sight for the Commander, including new gunner sights, ballistic computer and FCS. It also has new ERA, new stabilizer (apparently) and "new" Shtora (Varta). Every source, including the Ukranian state exports site, say that they use a carousel type autoloader like the older versions and do not mention a turret bustle. 

t84_yatagan.jpg

In the early 2000s, Turkey was looking for a new MBT. When they stuck a 120mm "NATO-compatible" smoothbore gun and put the ammunition in the turret bustle -- it became the Yagatan or T-84-120. This prototype was not selected by Turkey, and that was that. New 120mm ammunition was developed specifically for this new 120mm gun, it also worked with standard NATO 120mm ammunition. 

That, my friends, is the tale of the T-84. Most info was taken from Military-Today, as you probably guessed. The RF will most likely shelf their T-80s, sooner or later -- but the UKR are moving forward with the design.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

The easy way to identify the diesel engine T-80UD (as opposed to gas-turbine T-80U, T-80UE & T-80UA) is the absence of the whopping great air filter on the back of the turret.

This model of the T-80U shows the filter clearly:

0001980_t-80u-main-battle-tank.jpeg

Whereas on the T-80UD it is absent:

0002000_t-80ud-main-battle-tank.jpeg

3 hours ago, DerKommissar said:

The RF will most likely shelf their T-80s, sooner or later

Not for the time being fella.....At present older T-80BVs are being refurbished, a number of them will then be upgraded to the T-80BVM standard:

t-80bvm-1505060647.jpg

Edited by Sgt.Squarehead

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, c3k said:

I always thought I was fairly decent at tank recognition...until the Soviets/Russians started with the whole T-72 family and the various offshoots. Sigh.

Amen to that fella, with a few exceptions, T-80 identification is a doddle compared to T-72 identification.....Even before the locals start messing with them:

T-72 Adra:

B4iZVACCUAAu4AF.jpg

T-72 'Gillette':

DaLDIciXUAAwaWk.jpg

And let's not even get started on the T-55s!  ;)

Edited by Sgt.Squarehead

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I usually identify the diesel version by the strange engine deck. Is this T-80UM upgrade scrapped?

T-80UM-1_at_VTTV-Omsk-2009_-02.jpg

Yeah, we shared those improvised Syrian modifications on a different thread. I am under the impression most of them are lucky charms, born of desperation. On the other hand, they're responding to their own needs as operators -- and perhaps providing inspiration, and demands, for innovation.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah, TBH that one seems to have been a technology demonstrator aimed at export customers, along the same lines as the T-90MS.....Many of the technologies it exhibits can be seen in one form or another on more recent designs.

Both of those Syrian designs apparently seem to have some merit on the battlefield (but there are plenty of others that don't), I believe they are both 'mass produced' (by Syrian Civil War standards).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 hours ago, mjkerner said:

Okay, grogs, have at it!

 

 

Those are some pretty convincing P. 3's by movie standards. It's also really good to see a model '41 T-34, most you see in movies are the 85s. Camouflage is a bit crazy, like CoH 2 micro-transaction specials. Much like actors and actresses in movies, tanks need their make-up. I am also glad that the Russian film industry doesn't shy away from certain historical symbols that are often associated with Germany of this time. I like that they got they used the right sights for the German and Soviet gun optics.

A pet peeve of mine are how tiny battles are in these movies. This one feels kind of silly, in that regard. Soviet village in the middle of nowhere, and everything happens within 50 square feet. A single T-34 by itself? Not part of a platoon or company? Lame. Tanks facing off like Nick Cage and Travolta within 5 meters of each other, and getting ricochets from the looks of it? I see we have Brad Pitt returning as bedraggled tank commander.

I'm guessing this is going to be a lone T-34 taking on an entire division? Nice infantry costumes, though! I probably won't see it, unless I have absolutely nothing to do. I saw White Tiger -- much of mystical nonsense and a few good tanks. Why can't they make movies like Liberation, or that film about the SU-100s? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Recently, I've been running into the MBT-70 (Kpz. 70). I have to say, I really like the design:

5ba888.jpg

DqEdRSd.png

Panzermuseum_Munster_2010_0729.JPG

MBT-70_NII_Stali.jpg

images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRJX2973asZNUZQCbABDEb

Why put the gunner and commander in the hull, when you can put the driver (partially) in the turret? I can imagine the 152mm works wonders in CS. The 20mm AA gives the commander something fun to play with. It seems to have been ahead of its time with the dynamic suspension -- something the Type 10 and others have taken on. Another story from development hell.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

It's a powerwheels. You know? For Kids!

maxresdefault.jpg

Woops, accidentally posted the new Armata family vehicle.

In all seriousness, that's the BAE Black Knight unmanned ground vehicle.

black_knight_l4.jpg

BK_sldfksdlfks1.jpg

Word on the street is that the project was canned. Not surprising, considering its turret is jammed up against its engine deck. How is it supposed to turn? If it's a fixed gun, why is there an obvious structural weakness of a gap between casemate and hull? WHAT WERE THEY THINKING?

So, pretty much, a modernized teletank with a 30mm and an GPMG. Except the 1930s Soviets got the rotating turret thing down.

Teletank.jpg?itok=l9cnakt0

 

Edited by DerKommissar

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

Looking for pakwagen oddities. I found this:

800px-SdKfz-250.jpg

Description is: "SdKfz.250 - Sfl 5cm Pak 38 L/60, Belgrade Military Museum, Serbia."

Was this a last ditch frankenstein or a post-war invention?

Some more oddities:

27635933063_acd7db8b09_b.jpg

8317732227_376646f4dd_c.jpg

38d63c8b4da81b8479ee089412c35ba8.jpg

images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQl0dyK-_3Iyyuu0pprtM0

Edited by DerKommissar

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have a pet theory that the M47 tank turret is basically an Americanized cast Panther Schmalturm turret. I think the design came out in '47, just two years after the allies laid their hands on Panther Schmalturm. I've never seen anyone note the resemblance in a publication but c'mon. you can see it, can't you? Can't you?

schmallturm M47.jpg

Edited by MikeyD

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×