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FoxZz

A plea for a French Army DLC

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Hello all,

As it's rumored that this game is expecting several DLCs, I take this opportunity to make a plea for a French DLC, or a LDC including the French. Why should the French be included in a DLC over other nations ?

First, let's look at the setting. Game setting is placed in Ukraine, at the border of Europe in 2017/2018. France is a permanent member of the UN Security Council, it's the third world's nuclear power, and the first military power of Europe (if Russia doesn't count as Europe). Diplomatically, France has been at the forefront of the discussion on Ukraine, being at the initiative of the Minsk II agreements, and is as such very involved on this matter. Historically, France is a very active military power and has significantly taken part in all the majors conflicts since the end of the Cold War : Gulf War, Yougoslavia, Somalia, Afghanistan, Lybia, Mali, Syria, etc. Furthermore France is regularly (and currently) involved in NATO and bilateral military exercises in Eastern Europe which show its commitment to the security of this region. Lastly, France would probably be able to come very quicly into the theater with significant amount of troops having a very high readiness and being located in continental Europe. All those elements make it almost certain that France would get involved in a conflict in Ukraine.

On a gameplay point of vue, we would get a ton of exotic toys. Most of French gear and vehicles are indegenously devlopped. It would be also very refreshing as French military very rarely depicted in the Video Game industry (at the exception of the Warhame series). French army is also very modern and would be balanced with US and Russian military. Interesting fact, French army is the only to have fielded operationally its future soldier system program. French army also has an orginal doctrine which differs from the US or Russian one: emphasis on mobility, flexbility, and initiative, even at the lower echellons, which comes from its exprience in irregular warfare. It influenced many of its military design, with, for example, an emphasis of wheeled vehicles. As such, many asks, how would this system fare in a more conventionnal context ? CM:BS gives us the opportunity to test it. Here is a link about French Doctrine https://wavellroom.com/2017/11/30/the-french-intervention-in-mali-a-lesson-in-mission-command/

Moreover, as I said, French armed forces are very rarely depicted in video games, and French video games market is very dynamic one with 4,3 billion euros of revenue in 2017. So it would probably attract many French players eager to play their national forces (even if they're not very vocal on english speaking forums) while also attracting players from all around the world interested in brand new faction. Lastly, French forces are the only major military power never depicted in a modern CM game. We had the US, Russia, Canada, UK, Germany, Netherlands, but not France.

 

Operationnal structure :

The basic infantry combat squad is made of 8 soldiers: 1 squad leader, 1 marksman, 1 300m fire team with 1 team leader and 2 AT4 soldiers and 1 600m team with 1 team leader, 1 minimi soldier and 1 light mortar soldier. There is 3 combat squad in a platoon as well as one support squad made of 1 squad leader and 2 Eryx teams, which can exchange the Eryx against M240 MGs. Lastly, the platoon is led by a 4 men command team with one platoon leader and its deputy, one radio operator and one medic.

3 infantry platoons are supported by a weapon platoon with two 81mm mortars teams and two MILAN atgm teams, those teams can also be armed with .50 calls or .30 calls. This makes a company.

The French cavalry platoon is made of 4 tanks (Leclerc or AMX10RC) and 4 armoured scout cars (VBLs). There is also a recon platoon made of 8 scout cars with different equipments (Milan, .50, .30, etc)

The compagny is the center of an infantry centric French operationnal Battlegroup. Then, it receives several reinforcements from other arms. Usually, a cavalry platoon, an artillery battery, a engineer platoon, a recon platoon as well as support elements (Snipers, JTACs, Commandos, Logistics, Transmission, Health and Oil services, etc). If the battlegroup is cavalry centric, then, its made around a Cavalry squadron, with the support of an infantry platoon, etc. There is also the possibilty of mixing it up with two infantry platoons and two cavalry platoons, etc.

Those battlegroups are part of a broader battallion  which can either use them dispersed or together. Usually it's made of 3 infantry compagnies and 1 tank  squadron and the support elements. The proportion between tanks and infantry varies in the same fashion as in BG depending of the need. Nowadays, French troops are always deployed in Battlegroups or Battallions. Regiments, Brigades and Division are only used as adminsitrative command levels in metropolitan France.

 

As of 2017, here is a list of indigenous French army armament :

- Leclerc MBT: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AMX_Leclerc ; http://www.military-today.com/tanks/leclerc.htm

- AMX 10 RCR wheeled tank: http://www.tanks-encyclopedia.com/coldwar/France/AMX-10-RC-RCR.php

- VBCI IFV: http://www.military-today.com/apc/vbci.htm

- VAB line of vehicles, including ULTIMA version with remote .50 cal, Mephisto version with HOT missiles, 20mm version, etc: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Véhicule_de_l'Avant_Blindé

- VBL scout vehicle: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Véhicule_Blindé_Léger

- PVP liaison vehicle: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petit_Véhicule_Protégé

- 120mm Rifled Mortar, its rifling permits to fire bigger shells (similar effect than 155mm shells) at longer ranges than regular mortars: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mortier_120mm_Rayé_Tracté_Modèle_F1

- CAESAR 155mm SPG: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CAESAR_self-propelled_howitzer ; https://www.army-technology.com/projects/caesar/ ; http://www.army-guide.com/eng/product1470.htm

- 81mm Mortar: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LLR_81mm

- FAMAS assault rifle: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FAMAS

- FRF2 and HECATE II sniper rifles: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FR_F2_sniper_rifle ; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PGM_Hécate_II

- MILAN 3, ERYX and HOT 3 ATGMs: https://www.army-technology.com/projects/milan/ ; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ERYX ; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HOT_(missile)

- Mistral MANPAD: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mistral_(missile)

- Tiger HAD and HAP attack helicopters: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eurocopter_Tiger

- Gazelle HOT scout helicopter: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aérospatiale_Gazelle

- Rafale fighter-bomber: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dassault_Rafale

- Mirage 2000D bomber: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dassault_Mirage_2000N/2000D

 

France interesting bits of kit :

- Rifle Grenades, both anti-tank and HE: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AC58 ; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/APAV40

- Infantry mortars: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lance-grenade_individuel_Mle_F1_(LGI_Mle_F1)

- BONUS anti-tank shells: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bofors_155_Bonus

- SPACIDO precision fuse: http://www.nexter-group.fr/en/press/528-spacido-la-france-engage-la-phase-finale-de-la-qualification-du-premier-systeme-dartillerie-a-correction-de-trajectoire-de-nexter-munitions-et-junghans ; http://basart.artillerie.asso.fr/article.php3?id_article=1341

- FELIN system, with special optics and improved situation awarness: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FÉLIN

- AASM self propelled stand-off bomb, with a low altitude launch range of 15km, which allows the plane to escape long range anti-air missile while staying out of range of SHORAD systems: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AASM

 

Here are some videos where you can see most of the gear I talked about :

 

In 2017 in Estonia, where you can how would look like a French Battlegroup in CM:BS  :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v9tzEyWL-zo&

 

Combat actions in Mali where you can see VBCI, VAB, AMX10RC, shoulder launched Eryx, Rifle grenades, infantry mortar, Hecate II, Tiger, etc

 

So, as you saw, lots of interesting and cool stuff could get added into the game with a French DLC. I hope it will convince you ! DOn't hesistate if you have any question.

 

Here is a last video to convince you of the awesomeness of the French Army ;)

 

Edited by FoxZz

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It's true for whine, I think it's supposed to be 1 glass per person per day or 1 can of beer.

About the gourmet food, our MREs are quite well known abroad. I think the exchange rate in Afghanistan was 1 French for 3 americans. And French cooks are quite good too.

If France ever gets into CMBS they should get better morale thanks to the food haha ;)

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FoxZz,

What an impressive and impassioned argument for adding in the French--with arguments based on geography, history, influence, technology, unique force structure, market size, advanced weaponry and more!  I do take exception, though to this eye-catching statement.

On 3/7/2018 at 1:29 AM, FoxZz said:

France is a permanent member of the UN Security Council, it's the third world's nuclear power

Am sure the French citizenry would be fascinated to learn this fact. I know what you intended to convey, but when you give me such great material to work with...

Regards,

John Kettler

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6 hours ago, John Kettler said:

FoxZz,

What an impressive and impassioned argument for adding in the French--with arguments based on geography, history, influence, technology, unique force structure, market size, advanced weaponry and more!  I do take exception, though to this eye-catching statement.

Am sure the French citizenry would be fascinated to learn this fact. I know what you intended to convey, but when you give me such great material to work with...

Regards,

John Kettler

Thank you for your comment, very appreciated :)

But I don't understand the second part of it :lol:, what do you mean ?

France really is permanent member of the Security council and 3rd nuclear power (both in number of warheads - although, far behind ones of the US and Russia - and capabilities). Even though nuclear weapons in CM:BS are really not relevant considering a direct affrontment could occur only if they are set aside, such a status implies great responsabilities on the international stage. That's why I made this statement, to back my argument about France being very likely to be involved, it wasn't meant to be taken as a nationalistic bragging :).

Hope this clears the misunderstanding :)

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On 3/7/2018 at 2:29 AM, FoxZz said:

Hello all,

As it's rumored that this game is expecting several DLCs, I take this opportunity to make a plea for a French DLC, or a LDC including the French. Why should the French be included in a DLC over other nations ?

First, let's look at the setting. Game setting is placed in Ukraine, at the border of Europe in 2017/2018. France is a permanent member of the UN Security Council, it's the third world's nuclear power, and the first military power of Europe (if Russia doesn't count as Europe). Diplomatically, France has been at the forefront of the discussion on Ukraine, being at the initiative of the Minsk II agreements, and is as such very involved on this matter. Historically, France is a very active military power and has significantly taken part in all the majors conflicts since the end of the Cold War : Gulf War, Yougoslavia, Somalia, Afghanistan, Lybia, Mali, Syria, etc. Furthermore France is regularly (and currently) involved in NATO and bilateral military exercises in Eastern Europe which show its commitment to the security of this region. Lastly, France would probably be able to come very quicly into the theater with significant amount of troops having a very high readiness and being located in continental Europe. All those elements make it almost certain that France would get involved in a conflict in Ukraine.

On a gameplay point of vue, we would get a ton of exotic toys. Most of French gear and vehicles are indegenously devlopped. It would be also very refreshing as French military very rarely depicted in the Video Game industry (at the exception of the Warhame series). French army is also very modern and would be balanced with US and Russian military. Interesting fact, French army is the only to have fielded operationally its future soldier system program. French army also has an orginal doctrine which differs from the US or Russian one: emphasis on mobility, flexbility, and initiative, even at the lower echellons, which comes from its exprience in irregular warfare. It influenced many of its military design, with, for example, an emphasis of wheeled vehicles. As such, many asks, how would this system fare in a more conventionnal context ? CM:BS gives us the opportunity to test it. Here is a link about French Doctrine https://wavellroom.com/2017/11/30/the-french-intervention-in-mali-a-lesson-in-mission-command/

Moreover, as I said, French armed forces are very rarely depicted in video games, and French video games market is very dynamic one with 4,3 billion euros of revenue in 2017. So it would probably attract many French players eager to play their national forces (even if they're not very vocal on english speaking forums) while also attracting players from all around the world interested in brand new faction. Lastly, French forces are the only major military power never depicted in a modern CM game. We had the US, Russia, Canada, UK, Germany, Netherlands, but not France.

 

Operationnal structure :

The basic infantry combat squad is made of 8 soldiers: 1 squad leader, 1 marksman, 1 300m fire team with 1 team leader and 2 AT4 soldiers and 1 600m team with 1 team leader, 1 minimi soldier and 1 light mortar soldier. There is 3 combat squad in a platoon as well as one support squad made of 1 squad leader and 2 Eryx teams, which can exchange the Eryx against M240 MGs. Lastly, the platoon is led by a 4 men command team with one platoon leader and its deputy, one radio operator and one medic.

3 infantry platoons are supported by a weapon platoon with two 81mm mortars teams and two MILAN atgm teams, those teams can also be armed with .50 calls or .30 calls. This makes a company.

The French cavalry platoon is made of 4 tanks (Leclerc or AMX10RC) and 4 armoured scout cars (VBLs). There is also a recon platoon made of 8 scout cars with different equipments (Milan, .50, .30, etc)

The compagny is the center of an infantry centric French operationnal Battlegroup. Then, it receives several reinforcements from other arms. Usually, a cavalry platoon, an artillery battery, a engineer platoon, a recon platoon as well as support elements (Snipers, JTACs, Commandos, Logistics, Transmission, Health and Oil services, etc). If the battlegroup is cavalry centric, then, its made around a Cavalry squadron, with the support of an infantry platoon, etc. There is also the possibilty of mixing it up with two infantry platoons and two cavalry platoons, etc.

Those battlegroups are part of a broader battallion  which can either use them dispersed or together. Usually it's made of 3 infantry compagnies and 1 tank  squadron and the support elements. The proportion between tanks and infantry varies in the same fashion as in BG depending of the need. Nowadays, French troops are always deployed in Battlegroups or Battallions. Regiments, Brigades and Division are only used as adminsitrative command levels in metropolitan France.

 

As of 2017, here is a list of indigenous French army armament :

- Leclerc MBT: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AMX_Leclerc ; http://www.military-today.com/tanks/leclerc.htm

- AMX 10 RCR wheeled tank: http://www.tanks-encyclopedia.com/coldwar/France/AMX-10-RC-RCR.php

- VBCI IFV: http://www.military-today.com/apc/vbci.htm

- VAB line of vehicles, including ULTIMA version with remote .50 cal, Mephisto version with HOT missiles, 20mm version, etc: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Véhicule_de_l'Avant_Blindé

- VBL scout vehicle: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Véhicule_Blindé_Léger

- PVP liaison vehicle: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petit_Véhicule_Protégé

- 120mm Rifled Mortar, its rifling permits to fire bigger shells (similar effect than 155mm shells) at longer ranges than regular mortars: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mortier_120mm_Rayé_Tracté_Modèle_F1

- CAESAR 155mm SPG: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CAESAR_self-propelled_howitzer ; https://www.army-technology.com/projects/caesar/ ; http://www.army-guide.com/eng/product1470.htm

- 81mm Mortar: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LLR_81mm

- FAMAS assault rifle: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FAMAS

- FRF2 and HECATE II sniper rifles: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FR_F2_sniper_rifle ; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PGM_Hécate_II

- MILAN 3, ERYX and HOT 3 ATGMs: https://www.army-technology.com/projects/milan/ ; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ERYX ; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HOT_(missile)

- Mistral MANPAD: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mistral_(missile)

- Tiger HAD and HAP attack helicopters: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eurocopter_Tiger

- Gazelle HOT scout helicopter: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aérospatiale_Gazelle

- Rafale fighter-bomber: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dassault_Rafale

- Mirage 2000D bomber: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dassault_Mirage_2000N/2000D

 

France interesting bits of kit :

- Rifle Grenades, both anti-tank and HE: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AC58 ; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/APAV40

- Infantry mortars: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lance-grenade_individuel_Mle_F1_(LGI_Mle_F1)

- BONUS anti-tank shells: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bofors_155_Bonus

- SPACIDO precision fuse: http://www.nexter-group.fr/en/press/528-spacido-la-france-engage-la-phase-finale-de-la-qualification-du-premier-systeme-dartillerie-a-correction-de-trajectoire-de-nexter-munitions-et-junghans ; http://basart.artillerie.asso.fr/article.php3?id_article=1341

- FELIN system, with special optics and improved situation awarness: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FÉLIN

- AASM self propelled stand-off bomb, with a low altitude launch range of 15km, which allows the plane to escape long range anti-air missile while staying out of range of SHORAD systems: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AASM

 

Here are some videos where you can see most of the gear I talked about :

 

In 2017 in Estonia, where you can how would look like a French Battlegroup in CM:BS  :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v9tzEyWL-zo&

 

Combat actions in Mali where you can see VBCI, VAB, AMX10RC, shoulder launched Eryx, Rifle grenades, infantry mortar, Hecate II, Tiger, etc

 

So, as you saw, lots of interesting and cool stuff could get added into the game with a French DLC. I hope it will convince you ! DOn't hesistate if you have any question.

 

Here is a last video to convince you of the awesomeness of the French Army ;)

 

That would be wonderful to see French Army in this game.

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French Army can serve as a part of UN mission in the game where Ukrainian border is controlled by UN forces in order to avoid any help to unconventionalists (still be to add to this game look my Hybrid Forces Mod) and while Ukraine is cleaning everything what left in that bag sort of speak. That would be wonderful. 

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FoxZz,

There is a huge difference between being the Third World's nuclear power and the third largest nuclear power. Pakistan would fall under the former category of Third World nuclear power, which is why I twitted you about how the French citizenry would view such a description of their nation.

Regards,

John Kettler

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2 hours ago, John Kettler said:

FoxZz,

There is a huge difference between being the Third World's nuclear power and the third largest nuclear power. Pakistan would fall under the former category of Third World nuclear power, which is why I twitted you about how the French citizenry would view such a description of their nation.

Regards,

John Kettler

Can't believe it's already been an hour, but the French battle group in Estonia video was amazing. On the strength of what I saw there alone, I'd happily support your campaign to get the French into CMBS. They look serious and squared away. The colors are somber, so I absolutely didn't understand the jarring bright blue wash stations or whatever they were. Those things would be a nightmare to camouflage. It found it remarkable how low the vertical profile was for the Le Clerc in the field. Has always looked like a beast to me when imaged at defense shows and such. Shall have to watch the other videos but in the sidebar to this one was a video series called "Armies de Mer__" not reproed completely here in case the full word would get me into trouble with Steve! If it means what I think it means, as in the famous Cambron instance, then it would definitely be a bad idea to press my luck. That said, I don't know French, so there may be other meanings attached as well. My Squat +1 knowledge level of what's happening in Mali was considerably improved by the second video. I knew MARSOC was doing CT training there vs AQ, but I was unaware there was a hot war going on. Love those big AMX armoured cars, if that's the right term. Always thought they were cool.

Regards,

John Kettler

P.S.

No idea why I got a quote of my previous one. Couldn't get rid of it, so we're stuck with it.

Edited by John Kettler

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french and brits together would mame an awesome expansion. maybe add a third nation like poland. 2 of those 3 bfc never did and I foresee a modern setting as best.

(yes i know abt the allied equipped Poles)

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Yeah definitely, I would love UK to be in too. It would make a lot of sense to have both in a Entente Cordiale DLC, they work together very often and are very much alike and complementary.

Poles would be very good too. The more nations are in the more I will be happy anyway, diversity is great !

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I would like to see Canada before UK, because Canada is acutally there now. So it would make more sense. French army and UK would be great as well. 

But most desired are (from my point of view): Poland, Canada, France. 

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As I posted elsewhere, it would be interested to find out if it would be practicable for BF to include the "models" for other nationalities' vehicles, weapons systems and uniforms etc but leave the actual theatre creation to modders.  

If CMFI included such models for North Africa theatre, then modders would be able to create a more convincing Afrika Korps mod than currently available - in the same way that CMSF has been completely modded to create a credible-looking European theatre.

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http://www.lrt.lt/mediateka/irasas/1013687203/karines-paslaptys-2018-03-17-karines-paslaptys-s3-ep29

Here is a video about the French current deployment in Latvia, comments are in Russian though, but you can see all the vehicles I talked about in the topic as well as the BVS Viking which is used by the moutain troops (in snow camo). There is also a Dutch engineer platoon.

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Am wondering if a compromise (assuming it requires a lot less work on BF's part) would be for BF to sell a module of unfinished models for units that people would like to see and then have our dedicated volunteer modders do the necessary artwork so that these new units could be used in an existing game.

Have no idea if this is practical.  Maybe someone more knowledgeable could comment.

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9 hours ago, Kozlice said:

Not to derail your thread, but that is Latvian. Serious question though, does it sound like Russian to a non speaker?

 I really wasn't sure it was Russian, but definitely sounded very similar. I should probably have checked before hand :p.

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I think there is an excellent case for including French, Germans, Polish, British, Baltic States, Netherlands, Belgians and Canadians on the NATO side. Also Belorussia for the Russians. More than happy to buy DLCs for all of the above. For the French contingent the Foreign Legion will have to be present for obvious reasons! :D

Likely however the Marines will be arriving before any of the above. Semper Fi!

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On 3/9/2018 at 7:40 PM, Oleksandr said:

That would be wonderful to see French Army in this game.

Ohhhh Impressive ?? ...

BUT I think every tank or heavy vehicle with these speed will conduct to the same result of a poor car without defense, I saw this also with a Leopard, and the speed was not so high... So...Leclerc, Leopard, or sherman this is not relevant,  the result is the same !!!

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