Jump to content
Deriuse

game crashes after some time playing

Recommended Posts

i think that is a miss compatibility between windows 10 and  GeForce card
this probleme appeared (it worked well before) at the start of the year probably after an update

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

After reflection, I remember that the problem appeared at the same period where I downloaded Fraps
I do not know if that can have an impact
do you use Frap?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
new test
in the same condition that the precedent with the demos version of CMRT and CMFB the problem also appears
so nothing to do with the engine 4
the pb really comes from the graphics card or version of the window
(I also put the games in exclusion of the antivirus windows)
that someone has an idea?
 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

problem solved
the Nvidia upgrade on December 20 must be loaded
Schrullenhaft is right
I opened a ticket and a guy confirmed it to me, it works

merci both !

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 hours ago, Falaise said:

problem solved
the Nvidia upgrade on December 20 must be loaded
Schrullenhaft is right
I opened a ticket and a guy confirmed it to me, it works

merci both !

where can i et those drivers?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
On 3/30/2018 at 7:39 AM, Eremitae said:

I also wanted to mention I occasionally get crashes on Combat Mission games as well. I have all the WWII titles, and all titles have crashed roughly 30min-60min into a save...

I have had this same problem for a half a year, but atm I have only played CMBS. I always thought my mods were the problem and I just could not figure it out. Had to make it a habit to save each turn!

Good that I stumbled up on this thread. Downgrading to December 20th drivers helped. Still a bad fix thought, the latest drivers would give lot of preformence improvements in other games...

 

Specs:

Windows 10 Pro

Intel i5-6600k

GTX 1070

Please, ask me if you need the full system information

Edited by The_MonkeyKing

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am afraid that I hit this problem too.

 

Is this a problem of the driver-software or from the game?

Or in other words:

Is it necessary to wait for a fix from nvidia or is the game to be fixed?

(In case 1: Does nvidia knows that there is a problem?)

 

greetings, alex

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

As far as I know, no one knows for sure where the problem is.

The problem seems to be triggered by mouse moving and having shaders enabled and "for some time to have passed" since starting a mission. Since shaders have been common usage for at least a decade, if it was a widespread problem with other games too, Nvidia would already have made a fix. Anectodally, I play plenty (10+ just at the moment) games using shaders and some form of mouse picking without problems. Regardless of fault, I really doubt Nvidia is going to be the one to fix it.

Current workarounds are to disable shaders (CTRL-R I believe), or to revert back to the December 2017 drivers. Neither, options, especially the latter are really going to work in the long run. Say someone buys a new graphics card, that is not supported by the old driver?

If I had to guess, I would guess that Battlefront have a misuse of some API in their code, or perhaps in the "mouse picking" which, earlier did not cause such error, now, probably due to some absurd optimization opportunity in the driver, is more serious.

Edited by Muzzleflash1990

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

How many of those games use OpenGL?

Another likely cause, given that older drivers work and now they don't, is that some other fix or change made inadvertently effected an OpenGL call.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

Video drivers DO NOT always get better with newer releases and not all fixes are cumulative (or even 'permanent' as some bugs come around again and again). It is unfortunately common for video driver developers to create bugs in their drivers in attempts to optimize them. Typically many 'optimizations' are in reality shortcuts, which are made with certain assumptions about game code. What may work fine with a certain set of calls ends up being broken with a different set of calls (that perhaps aren't as common). As IanL pointed out, most games on the PC are DirectX and not OpenGL, so you're unlikely to see the same bug in most other games. You're probably unlikely to find another game on your computer that is OpenGL 2.x based.

If an older driver works fine, then you know that the newer one has bugs and is the source of the problem. Unfortunately it may take some time for a fix to show up (several releases, possibly a year or more sometimes). It's possible a fix may come, but you won't necessarily see it mentioned in the release notes. 

OpenGL 2.x is a bit dated, but in general it offers some of the best compatibility and broadest support (in the number of video cards/chips and drivers to support it) compared to newer OpenGL revisions that require newer video cards. Utilizing newer OpenGL calls may alleviate some of the issues found in some drivers releases, but it would be quite a bit of work to potentially get any speed improvements and improved compatibility (more than likely more than a year of programmer time).

Edited by Schrullenhaft

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

Don't really see the point in asking what other games use OpenGL for this matter. If none does, is that telling us something about the choice of using OpenGL? If many does and they have no problem, does that mean BF is at fault? But since you asked, true most games on Windows (PC) uses DirectX, even games that are also available on Linux and Mac. Here's a couple I have installed that uses OpenGL without crashing: Brigador, Prison Architect, and Kerbal Space Program you can choose it optionally.

Because a new driver means Combat Mission crash now, and it doesn't do it with an older driver not mean it is the driver that is bad. It suggests it, but it is not an certain conclusion. Accepting the conclusion that the new driver did break it, it would suggest the old OpenGL 2.x is now longer offering the best compatibility anymore. In fact, you have go almost 10 years back find a gaming GPU that does not support 3.x+. And you can certainly find "surveys" done by game developers 5-10 years ago that suggest that "immediate" rendering as used by 2.x has significantly worse performance on, back then, newer cards.

Anyway, having to revert back to an older driver is just not a suitable workaround. Other games might require newer drivers. Some game, think it was Battlefield 1, would not even let me start unless I had the newest driver - though I do think that is a boneheaded decision. Windows is even forcing coming games to be Windows 10 only - hope it won't mess with OpenGL same way soon.

So it is likely that that current generation of Combat Mission will probably not get a major graphics engine rework (at least not in the near future), and graphics drivers will probably not gain better "backwards-compatibility" - something needs to done. What seems to be common for the problem is that it involves:

- Nvidia's OpenGL driver
- Use of combat mission's shaders
- Some time to have passed
- Seems to be triggered often by mouse input

I have been Googling to see whether others are suffered OpenGL problems that could be fixed by going back to the December 2017 driver, but not found anything so far. I still believe there is a chance Battlefront could be at fault. OpenGL only handles graphics, but mouse events in Windows are sent as events to be processed by a separate thread. I don't have the code to investigate this. So I cannot go tell Nvidia they screwed up, because I can't say for sure they did - and if someone can, they would probably need to give code related details. And if they are to care at all, in would probably be better coming from a developer.

So assuming Battlefront is not to blame, they are the only one that can tell Nvidia how they screwed up.

Edited by Muzzleflash1990

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Muzzleflash1990 said:

Don't really see the point in asking what other games use OpenGL for this matter.

?? 'cause if the bug is in the implementation of the OpenGL standard then games using direct X have zero chance of hitting it. :)

 

1 hour ago, Muzzleflash1990 said:

If none does, is that telling us something about the choice of using OpenGL?

?? In 2018 it might not be good choice but in 2004 it was. 

1 hour ago, Muzzleflash1990 said:

If many does and they have no problem, does that mean BF is at fault?

Not necessarily but it increases the odds.

1 hour ago, Muzzleflash1990 said:

But since you asked, true most games on Windows (PC) uses DirectX, even games that are also available on Linux and Mac. Here's a couple I have installed that uses OpenGL without crashing: Brigador, Prison Architect, and Kerbal Space Program you can choose it optionally.

Well that's two.

1 hour ago, Muzzleflash1990 said:

Because a new driver means Combat Mission crash now, and it doesn't do it with an older driver not mean it is the driver that is bad. It suggests it, but it is not an certain conclusion.

True but this has played out many times: help CM crashes after a driver update, one or two iterations later a new driver fixes it. Rinse and repeat. 

Back a few years ago I experienced some wonky way point placement that no one else had. After a long time trouble shooting the final result turned out to be that AMD had fixed a long standing bug that they had refused / neglected to fix for years. CM had a work around in place to make the game work. BFC released a change to optionally turn off the work around so those of us with new drivers could work.

Even that example was clearly the card manufacturers' fault.

1 hour ago, Muzzleflash1990 said:

Anyway, having to revert back to an older driver is just not a suitable workaround.

It is the workaround that you have :)

1 hour ago, Muzzleflash1990 said:

Other games might require newer drivers. Some game, think it was Battlefield 1, would not even let me start unless I had the newest driver - though I do think that is a boneheaded decision. Windows is even forcing coming games to be Windows 10 only - hope it won't mess with OpenGL same way soon.

Yeah, the bottom line is that BFC has to think about what is best for them. Which typically is to get the card manufacturers to fix what they broke. :D

1 hour ago, Muzzleflash1990 said:

I still believe there is a chance Battlefront could be at fault.

That's possible but the least likely cause.

1 hour ago, Muzzleflash1990 said:

OpenGL only handles graphics, but mouse events in Windows are sent as events to be processed by a separate thread. I don't have the code to investigate this.

Ah yes but OpenGL calls are involved in determining what was hit by the mouse. And yes that likely includes tracking movement too.

1 hour ago, Muzzleflash1990 said:

So I cannot go tell Nvidia they screwed up, because I can't say for sure they did - and if someone can, they would probably need to give code related details. And if they are to care at all, in would probably be better coming from a developer.

So assuming Battlefront is not to blame, they are the only one that can tell Nvidia how they screwed up.

Also true. I'll ping the right bell so that people know. But just to set expectations the opening bid will likely be to wait and see what Nvidia does.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, IanL said:

Also true. I'll ping the right bell so that people know. But just to set expectations the opening bid will likely be to wait and see what Nvidia does.

Excellent. That is really all I wanted -- to know that someone at least tried to 'get the ball rolling', on the issue. I can deal with the reality of it never being fixed, but would be harder to swallow if no one tried the slightest. I'll do my part with the sheep blood and the pentagram on the floor :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

Im guessing this is what has been happening to me as well: 

 

Edited by Fizou

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I made a test last night. Started a scenario thats 1 hour 50 minutes in real time. Went to bed. When I woke up, checked the computer and sure enough the game had CTD. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, rocketman said:

Ran the same test as @Fizou with no CTD. 

GTX 970M, driver 398.36, Win 10 version 1803 OS version 17134.37, shaders on, no mouse input.

Thanks for checking. I left a turn based single player scenario running on my computer just now, only played a few turns then let it sit for a few hours, and came back to a CTD. Never seen this before either. Really sucks to see my favorite game stop working, especially with so much new stuff just around the corner. 😭

GTX 780M, driver 398.36, Win 10 version 1803, OS version 17134.112. Shaders on. 

Whats the mouse input part? Whether the mouse is moved/used on during the test?  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The important thing is that the issue have been escalated, so maybe it will be resolved eventually - not more we can do as players.

Perhaps interesting note. @Fizou not sure you first issue is the same with it failing mid-processing is the same issue. Your second though is.  rocketman  might not be having the problem due to, his particular card 970. Mostly other variants with the number 7 is affected, like 780s and 1070s for example. Or he is using a rather recent driver so maybe I should try that one - maybe Nvidia fixed it.

Either way, not sure if you saw the earlier posts. But there are two workarounds @Fizou. Either revert to Dec 20 (2017) driver, or disable shaders using CTRL-R. Currently I am doing the latter - while an annoyance, the game is still playable without them, and we did survive without them until Red Thunder.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
56 minutes ago, Fizou said:

Whats the mouse input part? Whether the mouse is moved/used on during the test?  

I think I saw in another thread  that mouse imput could be responsible for the CTD moment.

Edit: (Add): Do you have any other programs that run processes with a regular interval automatically?

Edited by rocketman

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×