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i saw the video and I checked if the same thing happen in CMBN

The answer is yes

"buy the farm" is one of the few scennario I played or there are trenches

under fire of the artillery, the soldiers went out to rush into the houses and manholes available

that the soldiers hit by the artillery in open ground rush into the manholes where the houses seem to me rather natural

the bug is that he leaves the trenches

it is enough (it is apparently easier to say what to do) to give the trench the same status as manholes or houses

except for the particular case of trenches, the general behavior seems realistic

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Has there been any word at all from BF on the patch? 

I have supported and bought everything these guys have ever put out and now they just decide to go complete radio silence on fixing something they broke?

I hate to sound so negative but dang its hard not to feel like they really just don't care.  I have to hope that is not the case but it would be nice for them to at least let us know whats going on.

This has always been a pretty loyal fan base but I don't know if it makes good business sense to take that for granted.

Sorry for the rant but with the 4.0 issue I really don't even want to play at the moment and its been that way for quite a while now and should have been addressed by now.

Unacceptable.

 

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I think the team wants to present it at once, in a complete package, without flaws. I would as well. Granted they are silent. I imagine it's similar to how a parent feels on Christmas with that *special* gift.

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Oh sure I get that and I am not really talking so much about release of the patch but just some communication to the community who has supported them through thick and thin.

That is what really bothers me. I love these game more than any other game I have ever owned and always had big love for these devs but just to put it into perspective.

They released a for money engine upgrade that broke the AI.  Ok that happens, its game development.  Then they say something about it being almost ready or looking good almost 6 months ago and since then not a word. Not a "hey guys we are working on it ran into some issues but we are working on it."  Just a little communication goes a long way.

Unless I totally missed some communication.  It really makes ya wonder if they just cant fix it and they don't want to say it.

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Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, TGarner said:

Unless I totally missed some communication.  It really makes ya wonder if they just cant fix it and they don't want to say it.

Unfortunately I can't say much, but I can say that for sure is not it.  Heck all they had to do if they felt they had created a bug was rollback to 3.0.  The behavior itself is the result of trying to get the AI to react better.  Unfortunately it had unintended consequences.  The preference is to find the middle ground.  They didn't "break the AI", semantics maybe but when you have an AI as complicated as CM is, getting the behavior to cover all situations is tough.

I know that probably isn't helping much but it is about all that I can say.

Edited by sburke

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2 minutes ago, sburke said:

 Heck all the had to do if they felt they had created a bug was rollback to 3.0.  The behavior itself is the result of trying to get the AI to react better.  Unfortunately it had unintended consequences.  The preference is to find the middle ground.  They didn't "break the AI", semantics maybe but when you have an AI as complicated as CM is, getting the behavior to cover all situations is tough.

+1  only to add that corrections with the patch are intrinsically critical to the success of SF2. If that game isn't functioning right on release, it will be a disaster, esp considering the expectation and the anticipated sales generated by this particular title.

In addition to this, I understand BF have been working in collaboration with NZ armed forces and the team set up and operation has changed -  I think that explains why development has been extra slow and lower priority over the past year.

I feel the frustration though, I have 3 games myself that are on ice due to the quite intolerable AI issues (albeit extreme examples).

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1 hour ago, The Steppenwulf said:

In addition to this, I understand BF have been working in collaboration with NZ armed forces and the team set up and operation has changed -  I think that explains why development has been extra slow and lower priority over the past year.

And admitting that wouldn't be received well. Hence the empty promises and radio silence. And with every comment on the forum the mantra 'every moment I'm answering you guys, delays the development of the games you're waiting for'. Treat your forum like a bunch of school boys and see what happens.

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10 minutes ago, Aragorn2002 said:

And admitting that wouldn't be received well. Hence the empty promises and radio silence. And with every comment on the forum the mantra 'every moment I'm answering you guys, delays the development of the games you're waiting for'. Treat your forum like a bunch of school boys and see what happens.

That might be bit harsh, I mean there are so many games I played in the past that had serious bugs, even game breakers, and yet the devs never fixed the issues. They just moved onto the next project (e.g. Flashpoint 2 Dragon Rising). That is def not BF's policy thank god!

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Posted (edited)
20 minutes ago, The Steppenwulf said:

That might be bit harsh, I mean there are so many games I played in the past that had serious bugs, even game breakers, and yet the devs never fixed the issues. They just moved onto the next project (e.g. Flashpoint 2 Dragon Rising). That is def not BF's policy thank god!

I don't mind so much about the  bugs, they will always be there in some form. I'm especially annoyed about the endless delay and vague promises. And the reactions one gets when one has the bloody nerve to comment on that. A good example is the promise of screenshots in the beginning of this year. We only recently had some new ones for CM Italy, thanks to Bud. The comments were good and grateful. According to BF screenshots always cause a hailstorm of comments and questions. Just didn't happen.

Always the same 'it's all your own fault'- defence, to explain the failing of a decent PR-policy by BF.

Edited by Aragorn2002

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I'm confused. Steve *has* communicated that this is a prob and that they will fix it. Just what communication do you guys want? That's the part I am confused about. Seems like there are some entitled snowflakes that want their soft hands held while they wait.

No one I know has stopped playing, I certainly have not. Considering it took months for the issue to be diagnosed the game cannot be totally unplayable. This has been discussed before with quotes posts on the timeline and Steve's response.

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Its absolutely clear, that its run now by people with no understanding of how to run a business.

The original creators probably were bought out with a NDA and are long gone. People running their business usually become better and better. Here they want to make the customers believe they turned into totally incompetent "managers"? :rolleyes:

It also explains why the current US-government controlled team running this op, is not capable getting the most simple things into the code within two years - because it was written by someone else...

During that time the old team had developed a whole new game and game engine... :lol:

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1 hour ago, CarlWAW said:

Its absolutely clear, that its run now by people with no understanding of how to run a business.

The original creators probably were bought out with a NDA and are long gone. People running their business usually become better and better. Here they want to make the customers believe they turned into totally incompetent "managers"? :rolleyes:

It also explains why the current US-government controlled team running this op, is not capable getting the most simple things into the code within two years - because it was written by someone else...

During that time the old team had developed a whole new game and game engine... :lol:

Whatever it is you woke up and started smoking this morning is some really good stuff, but I'd suggest laying off it.  You guys have a way of developing conspiracies that is pretty interesting, but so far off base that it stops being funny ands just becomes sad.  NZ project holding them up... pretty funny.  Not sure what the basis was for that conclusion considering that article linked to is over a year old.  As far as any of us knows they just went out and bought freakin copies of CMBS.  But then that wouldn't fit into the conspiracy theory. <_<  Facts are such a pain in the arse.

As to understanding how to run a business.  Considering that they have been at it over 20 years and are still going strong it seems that most of you who think you know how to run one and have decided what the hallmarks of success are...   are ...well how do I put this... WRONG.  Not even just wrong, like totally out there in the ether stupid wrong.  Like so wrong that you look like that Midvale school for the gifted Far Side comic.

By the way I think the NZ gov't held up the contract because of 4.0 and decided it was un-playble.  No not really, but it was funny to think so.  Pull.

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I assure you I am no entitled snowflake and I think that is an easy defense of their lack of communication.

I understand the whole entitlement thing is real now a days but I cant see in any way how this is that.  Steve communicated that this is a problem back in Jan.?  Indicating that things were looking good or something to that effect? And we are entitled snowflakes 6 months later because we have issues with the total lack of communication since?  That is why I hesitated even making my original post because it doesn't seem to take long for the insults to come when one questions BF here.

I do not expect anyone to hold my hand nor do I feel entitled to anything other than decent customer service for a product that I have shelled out quite a bit of my hard earned money for.

And again my comments are just about some simple communication about what is going on.  The lack of that simple little piece of customer service shows a disrespect for the community and customer base that has kept them in business all these years.  Now I am sorry I was trying to be very respectful in my comments and concerns and if I get banned now then I guess so be it but I didn't take us down this road.

 

 

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Posted (edited)

I agree, facts are a pain in the arse. One of the facts, that incidentally also is a pain the arse, is that is has been 17 months since 4.0 was released, and still no patch.

Edited by Muzzleflash1990

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8 minutes ago, sburke said:

Whatever it is you woke up and started smoking this morning is some really good stuff, but I'd suggest laying off it.  You guys have a way of developing conspiracies that is pretty interesting, but so far off base that it stops being funny ands just becomes sad.  NZ project holding them up... pretty funny.  Not sure what the basis was for that conclusion considering that article linked to is over a year old.  As far as any of us knows they just went out and bought freakin copies of CMBS.  But then that wouldn't fit into the conspiracy theory. <_<  Facts are such a pain in the arse.

As to understanding how to run a business.  Considering that they have been at it over 20 years and are still going strong it seems that most of you who think you know how to run one and have decided what the hallmarks of success are...   are ...well how do I put this... WRONG.  Not even just wrong, like totally out there in the ether stupid wrong.  Like so wrong that you look like that Midvale school for the gifted Far Side comic.

By the way I think the NZ gov't held up the contract because of 4.0 and decided it was un-playble.  No not really, but it was funny to think so.  Pull.

Hold on I'm not subscribing to any conspiracy theories and how dare anyone start throwing accusations about being snowflakes. If anything in fact I am defending BF because should other projects have potentially more revenue generation, you cannot blame the company for giving CM lower priority if only temporary. Now regarding the NZ project, I quote directly form Steve's post in January 2018:-

Quote

P.S.  I did not mention the New Zealand contract.  We are nearing completion on that as well, but it's not available for sale to the public and so no point teasing you with shots of Kiwis running around with Pinzgauers.

Now if this hasn't impacted on the progress of SF2 and the v 4 patch in some way over the past 12-17 months then....

 

 

 
  

 

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44 minutes ago, The Steppenwulf said:

 

Now if this hasn't impacted on the progress of SF2 and the v 4 patch in some way over the past 12-17 months then....

 

 

 
 

 

I increasingly believe in the theory that NZ backed out of the contract or asked for a patched version which is yet to come so BF is in a tough spot right now.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, sburke said:

As to understanding how to run a business.  Considering that they have been at it over 20 years and are still going strong it seems that most of you who think you know how to run one and have decided what the hallmarks of success are...   are ...well how do I put this... WRONG.  Not even just wrong, like totally out there in the ether stupid wrong.  Like so wrong that you look like that Midvale school for the gifted Far Side comic.

 

This is a bad argument. They keep all relevant information (sales figures, cash flow, etc.) secret ostensibly to "protect it from competition." Just pointing to longevity is ridiculous, for all you know they could have been limping along for 20 years, it's literally impossible to know how successful they are. 

I'll tell you what's not a sign of a good company, releasing an update with a game breaking bug (I consider it game breaking because it effectively makes the single player unplayable, unless you enjoy effortlessly gunning down fleeing AI troops) and charge $10 for it. Then going over a year and a half without any sign of a fix on the way. Bonus points for the fact that the update to fix 4.0 will also likely require you to pay for it because BFC loves its customers so much that they nickle and dime them for basic bug fixes. 

But hey, I gotta give some credit to BFC, they've clearly mastered the art of building up a dedicated fanbase. Paying customers are demanding some action to fix their game, and we got @IanL throwing out terms like snowflakes, because screw them for wanting to be able to play their $60 game without using janky workarounds. 

 

Edited by sid_burn

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, The Steppenwulf said:

Hold on I'm not subscribing to any conspiracy theories and how dare anyone start throwing accusations about being snowflakes. If anything in fact I am defending BF because should other projects have potentially more revenue generation, you cannot blame the company for giving CM lower priority if only temporary. Now regarding the NZ project, I quote directly form Steve's post in January 2018:-

Now if this hasn't impacted on the progress of SF2 and the v 4 patch in some way over the past 12-17 months then....

I actually wasn't replying to you. :D  Nevertheless the jump from they had something they did for NZ to that is what is holding things up is a really big leap . Personally I haven't seen any evidence to support that and I am in a slightly better position to know.  Not a whole lot better, but enough to know you guys are going down a dead end.  We should all know by now that much as we love what BF produces, Steve really sucks at timeline projections.  I mean reaalllllly sucks. :P So maybe we should all take a deep breath and realize BF's strength is also the source of some frustration.  Steve and Charles are seriously experienced gamer dudes.  They aren't Curt Schilling.  They don't promise the moon and then not deliver.  They work their asses off to produce the best tactical war game out there at a very reasonable price.  They aren't hand holding kind of guys, hell does anyone even know if Charles really exists? I've never met him.  Never saw him post here...….. hmmmmm.  Let them do what they do best- make the games.  Stop expecting they are gonna start a blog you can interact with to get more information that will never actually satisfy you and please stop asking Steve for dates.  Every time he posts one here I cringe cause I know it is only a matter of time before we end up right here.

And for what it is worth I agree the snowflakes comment was uncalled for.  I understand Ian's view that some things are a bit overblown, but I do know players who have stopped playing due to 4.0.  I haven't, but I understand those who have.  

 

Edited by sburke

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45 minutes ago, sid_burn said:

This is a bad argument. They keep all relevant information (sales figures, cash flow, etc.) secret ostensibly to "protect it from competition." Just pointing to longevity is ridiculous, for all you know they could have been limping along for 20 years, it's literally impossible to know how successful they are. 

No actually it is not literally impossible.  Are they fabulously rich, no.  Are they making a decent living enough to make this worthwhile when they could be making a lot more working for someone else.  Yeah.  And they still make the best tactical combat sim out there and haven't sold away the rights. And limping along for 20 years?  Small businesses don't "limp along" for 20 years.  That statement alone shows how little you understand the subject you are discussing.   So yes I will standby my statement that the longevity reflects they know very well what they are doing.   But hey if you have anything more than "they don't tell me enough info or they haven't yet released a patch for an issue that took months for anyone to notice" as a evidence that they don't know what they are doing, let's hear it.

Actually let's not cause it doesn't really matter.  I'll still buy the next release and it doesn't bother me that Steve waits till he feels he has something substantial to say before posting. 

53 minutes ago, Sulomon said:

I increasingly believe in the theory that NZ backed out of the contract or asked for a patched version which is yet to come so BF is in a tough spot right now.

Good lord - the new era where "what I believe" becomes the replacement for I don't really know so I shouldn't say.  Where the f**k did that theory come from.  Oh wait yeah I can smell it now.....

I believe climate change isn't happening so I can ignore all the freakin science.  

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Posted (edited)
17 minutes ago, sburke said:

No actually it is not literally impossible.  Are they fabulously rich, no.  Are they making a decent living enough to make this worthwhile when they could be making a lot more working for someone else.  Yeah.  And they still make the best tactical combat sim out there and haven't sold away the rights. And limping along for 20 years?  Small businesses don't "limp along" for 20 years.  That statement alone shows how little you understand the subject you are discussing.   So yes I will standby my statement that the longevity reflects they know very well what they are doing.   But hey if you have anything more than "they don't tell me enough info or they haven't yet released a patch for an issue that took months for anyone to notice" as a evidence that they don't know what they are doing, let's hear it.

Actually let's not cause it doesn't really matter.  I'll still buy the next release and it doesn't bother me that Steve waits till he feels he has something substantial to say before posting. 

Good lord - the new era where "what I believe" becomes the replacement for I don't really know so I shouldn't say.  Where the f**k did that theory come from.  Oh wait yeah I can smell it now.....

I believe climate change isn't happening so I can ignore all the freakin science.  

Small businesses do "limp along" for 20 years.  Existing for some time doesn't mean they are prosperous just that they aren't bankrupt failures.  The theory comes from nothing being done for months and that the thing they were working on was the NZ game.  Something is holding BF up.  Yeah there's not really any hard evidence but it sounds more likely by each day of no communication or releases.

Edited by Sulomon

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Posted (edited)
32 minutes ago, sburke said:

That statement alone shows how little you understand the subject you are discussing

 

This is rich coming from someone who just handwaves away all criticisms on the basis that "they must know what they are doing." 

Quote

   But hey if you have anything more than "they don't tell me enough info or they haven't yet released a patch for an issue that took months for anyone to notice" as a evidence that they don't know what they are doing, let's hear it.

Again, you have literally no evidence to back up your own assertions, yet pull out the "get more evidence card." 

 

Quote

Good lord - the new era where "what I believe" becomes the replacement for I don't really know so I shouldn't say.  Where the f**k did that theory come from.  Oh wait yeah I can smell it now.....

I believe climate change isn't happening so I can ignore all the freakin science.  

At this point we'll likely see the major effects of climate change before we actually get the 4.0 patch or any substantial content. But personally I look forward to the forum update:

 "Hey it's Steve here reporting from the flooded ruins of Augusta Maine, 4.0 fix will be coming soon, in the meantime here are 2 random Rome to Victory Screenshots, give us money."

 

But then we get to my favourite part

 

Quote

Actually let's not cause it doesn't really matter.  I'll still buy the next release and it doesn't bother me that Steve waits till he feels he has something substantial to say before posting. 

Smart move to run away, come at me with something a bit better next time or don't come at all. 

 

 

 

Edited by sid_burn

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Posted (edited)

Decent arguments on both sides here. That said... yeah, it's pretty disappointing that a fix couldn't have come our way by now. It's true that Steve didn't publicly acknowledge the AI problem until 5 or 6 months ago (IIRC), but that doesn't mean it wasn't known about well before then. Several users noted and a few mentioned it right here on these forums long before that.

And let's not forget that BFC has admitted that they knew of the issue at 4.0's release -- apparently it was pointed out by a few beta testers -- but the company didn't consider it game-breaking enough to hold the product back. I happen to disagree -- it absolutely is game-breaking, to me --  so I have several scenarios on-hold at the moment. It's just not challenging to attack anymore.

But maybe we should also remember that there are other issues that need to be (re)fixed in this patch, too. Like the one where a few soldiers will not move even while their unit is ordered all around the battlefield. That can have some pretty devastating consequences. Is it tied to the way infantry is now more spread out when moving... or how they use corners... or something else altogether? Who knows?

Well, I think the point is, after EIGHTEEN MONTHS(!!), BFC does (or should) know by now. If they need more beta-testers to check out any incremental changes, fine, I'd say it's well past the time to just go ahead and enlist a few more. Customers are obviously getting pretty upset with this delay, and -- as much as I like this product, and respect what Steve, et al., are doing -- it's becoming really difficult to say that all these obviously annoyed customers are being unreasonable.

Edited by sttp

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1 hour ago, sburke said:

.And for what it is worth I agree the snowflakes comment was uncalled for.

Yeah it is possible I overreacted. I apologize unreservedly if I hurt anyone's tender feelings that was my intent and I was wrong to do so.

Sorry.

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30 minutes ago, sttp said:

And let's not forget that BFC has admitted that they knew of the issue at 4.0's release -- apparently it was pointed out by a few beta testers -- but the company didn't consider it game-breaking enough to hold the product back. 

?? They did? That's news to me. Got a quote. Although perhaps never mind. People are just aggravated and not really discussing things.

And for the record I don't much like the behaviour either and am looking forward to the patch as well. I just don't agree that the issue is game breaking.

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