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1 hour ago, IICptMillerII said:

Meant to say impostor. Shall we fisticuffs?

 

Lets get it on (real life or H2H battle, I don't mind, as long as we get to see it). :)

popcorn emoji...

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On ‎2‎/‎16‎/‎2018 at 4:31 PM, Kuderian said:

I think your perception of the 'defect' is different from most of of us players. I have been playing v4.0 since day 1. , every fffing day and my experience is that the AI High Explosive awareness has often saved my troops bacon (despite sometimes my best efforts to thwart them) which more than compensates imho for the odd 'running-away-too-quickly' behaviour. So please tone down the hyperbole( and vitriol) and try and understand  that your opinion of 'defect' is by no means a deal breaker for most of us ( and BF are not sitting on their fat asses' smokin' cigars -  Read Steve's candid post's on BFC's year of 2017).

This is pretty much exactly what I feel also.

Loaded 4.0 and have been enjoying it the whole time, so I really cannot feel bad for those of you that think it just screwed up the game so much that it is a sin to have one play it.

Now I heard the complaints from the moment they started but I did not see it in the play of my battles.

It was months before I finally came across a battle where I saw the arty really rout my troops in a very obvious unnatural way. So I tested stuff to help try and expose the issue instead of just whine about it.

But did I go back to version 3, no, and nobody I have played have asked to play version 3 either.

So where are the masses that cannot live with the issue til 4.0 is correct. Oh its the same handful here that about every three of four weeks have to act childish once again since they have not been given what they want yet.

Now in the whole 14 or so months I will say, maybe 3 battles I played have been impacted by the flaw, but you know what that means, I have played about 30 battles that have been really enjoyable with the added improvements 4.0 has given.

But you all stay with your version 3.0, because you have your agency and isn't that wonderful. But keep your attitudes in check about your demands, a change will come.

And after all these months of suffering because you did not get the improvements because you demand it play in a certain manor, I doubt you will like the next release anyway, no matter how it comes out, because being jerks is just such a natural thing for us all to do now days.

From one jerk to a few others, have a nice day.

 

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@Kuderian @slysniper

 

If you watch this video and still think there is absolutely no problem, you're either high, delusional, or both. 

The fact is, there IS an issue, and Steve has already acknowledged it and said there will be a patch that addresses it. Again to reiterate what I've already said, I would like it if the patch was out sooner rather than later, but I'm not all butthurt that it hasn't been released yet. 

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I've been getting back into CM lately after a long time and I haven't noticed that issue before. That's unfortunate. When I read the patch notes for the 4.0 upgrade for the first time and it said the AI would "proactively avoid incoming HE fire", I got excited and thought that they would duck down and cower from it better, not just get up and run away like that.

Maybe this has already been discussed ad nauseam on here, but whenever I read memoirs or eyewitness accounts from the war, soldiers often say that you could hear incoming artillery shells from a long way off, and sometimes even see them flying through the air. After some experience, you can start to tell if an incoming shell will land next to you or not, so you know when to take cover. That seems like the best way to fix the issue. Troops in CM already seem to be able to tell when artillery is coming in, because you can hear them yell about it. They'll shout "Incoming! Take cover!" and so on. Instead of running away, can't they make it so the troops proactively hit the dirt and cower before the shells start landing? More experienced troops should be better at it of course. Once they hear shells whistling in, veterans should be smart enough to know when to keep their heads down at the bottom of their holes, and not break cover and run out into the open. If you have a movement order going on, and the troops detect artillery coming in, they should cancel it and cower. Conscripts and green troops could just ignore the incoming shells, and only react to them afterward.

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Rightly or wrongly I am with CptMiller and Bozowans here. Millers video is very telling and mimics what I have seen in battles vs the AI.

I have been waiting for a fix to continue my Road to Nijmegen campaign since April last year. To me the change to 4.0 was like chalk and cheese for the desperate Airborne in the later battles of this campaign.

Not hating just saying.

 

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11 hours ago, IanL said:

Relax man :)@slysniper didn't say there wasn't an issue. He said it wasn't game breaking like some have attested. 

I agree with him and you. :)

Try fighting german squads with mg42s firing bursts with your good old british sections with single shot bren guns, i'd say that's pretty game breaking in certain scenarios... after 14 months and no patch people will complain, like it or not, and they do not care how marginal you think the issues are. 14 months are a long time.

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I've made the point several times, but for me the 4.0 issue is experienced troops leaving cover and running when (in previous engines) they would instead briefly cower, simulating just keeping their heads down.

I've had fresh elite and crack British paras run out of heavy buildings when they came under rifle or very distant MG fire for less than a minute.  Something has definitely changed.

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I think this is really an 'eye of the beholder' issue, a real classic one for that. As being part of the 'old guard' myself (at least I think I am after 10+ years and 1000+ posts and having done some beta testing in the past), I don't see any problem with SgtHatred's post. At the same time I understand IanL, Sburke and others because often people that are trying to be helpful on the forum get flak just for having their own viewpoint.
I think everyone is entitled their own viewpoint. Conceptual attributes like 'game-braking' are as subjective as attributes can come, because what exactly defines game breaking? 

Personally I have been so busy with other things that I have rarely had the time and or energy to play CM over the last 2 years. When I tried some 4.0 games, I did encounter the 'run from prepared positions under arty fire' behavior. Because in that particular scenario it did break my immersion, I decided to wait for a patch so I can enjoy the content I play in the most optimal form. I mostly enjoy campaigns when played the first time, so that's why.

In the end we are all here to enjoy the game. It's good that there is an old guard on the forum, at the same time it's good that there are new people on the forums. Obviously opinions about bugs, due patches and other things will differ. That's what a forum is about. 
Anyway, I don't see the problem with this discussion and most of the viewpoints offered here. As long as people keep discussion civilized and not take or make things personal, its all fine imo :).

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On 2/20/2018 at 3:32 AM, IICptMillerII said:

 

...If you watch this video and still think there is absolutely no problem, you're either high, delusional, or both. ..

 

Hey, check my pic .. yes of course I am high ;) Wouldn't play CM without it!

 

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On ‎2‎/‎20‎/‎2018 at 11:28 AM, Miller786 said:

Try fighting german squads with mg42s firing bursts with your good old british sections with single shot bren guns, i'd say that's pretty game breaking in certain scenarios... after 14 months and no patch people will complain, like it or not, and they do not care how marginal you think the issues are. 14 months are a long time.

Well, people like that post of yours.

But I would like to point out, that the distance the bren presently fires one shot is pretty far. So even if it was working more to your likes, it still is not the range to be engaging the Germans in a prolonged fire fight anyway if that is the weapons you are using. You will still likely lose.

Of course there might be a situation I am not envisioning here. But in anything of a pretty even match up, I am not doing a very good job of commanding my troops if I am relying on brens to try and pin or kill a mg42. (just off the top of my head the only time  I would do it is if I think I can get a first major burst in on the enemy and for that to happen, the range is going to very close. (And guess what, the bren fires rapidly just fine at that range.)

The bren does not have the sustained fire or ammo amounts or loads generally to be used well as a long range pinning weapon even if it did fire burst. 

So no, it has not frustrated me much at all. (Now if a battle was designed for just that type of situation and I had no other options other than to try and pin the enemy MG's at range with brens I can see your frustration., But really, there is battles out there that rely on that as the key to winning. Please point me to it, for I would like a little frustration in my life.

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4 hours ago, slysniper said:

The bren does not have the sustained fire or ammo amounts or loads generally to be used well as a long range pinning weapon even if it did fire burst. 

So no, it has not frustrated me much at all. (Now if a battle was designed for just that type of situation and I had no other options other than to try and pin the enemy MG's at range with brens I can see your frustration., But really, there is battles out there that rely on that as the key to winning. Please point me to it, for I would like a little frustration in my life.

A Canadian Bn assaulting a German fortified position, in the night, in the middle of a blizzard kind of fits the bill, doesn't it?

That was the QB I played with @SLIM recently... He set the conditions of the match, we thought it would be fun. And IT WAS a fun game, even with those Brens that were as functional as blunderbusses :)

It wasn't a match as realistic as it could have been,  though. 

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6 hours ago, slysniper said:

But really, there is battles out there that rely on that as the key to winning. Please point me to it, for I would like a little frustration in my life.

I know you're being sarcastic, but try "Ten out of Ten" from the Scottish Corridor campaign. Interesting, frustrating, and challenging scenario.

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9 hours ago, slysniper said:

Well, people like that post of yours.

But I would like to point out, that the distance the bren presently fires one shot is pretty far. So even if it was working more to your likes, it still is not the range to be engaging the Germans in a prolonged fire fight anyway if that is the weapons you are using. You will still likely lose.

Of course there might be a situation I am not envisioning here. But in anything of a pretty even match up, I am not doing a very good job of commanding my troops if I am relying on brens to try and pin or kill a mg42. (just off the top of my head the only time  I would do it is if I think I can get a first major burst in on the enemy and for that to happen, the range is going to very close. (And guess what, the bren fires rapidly just fine at that range.)

The bren does not have the sustained fire or ammo amounts or loads generally to be used well as a long range pinning weapon even if it did fire burst. 

So no, it has not frustrated me much at all. (Now if a battle was designed for just that type of situation and I had no other options other than to try and pin the enemy MG's at range with brens I can see your frustration., But really, there is battles out there that rely on that as the key to winning. Please point me to it, for I would like a little frustration in my life.

A rotten argument, just because you can use other tactics i doesn't mean that single shot bren guns aren't a big deal, if i wanted a close range weapon i would have 2 sten guns in my sections...

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I'm not gonna say something out of school, but you all do know that the Bren/BAR single-shot "issue" has been logged and is known?

Arguing about it here is not going to accomplish much...unless you like high-blood pressure. 

Umm, you know, just sayin'. 

(In any case, any commander who relies on long-range firepower obviously doesn't have the trust and confidence in his men that -I- have: "10m cover arcs, fix bayonets, lads, and CHARGE!!! I'd like to accompany you and have the same chance to cover myself in glory, but unfortunately this paperwork won't take care of itself. I'll be forced to stay at HQ. Carry on.")

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6 hours ago, c3k said:

In any case, any commander who relies on long-range firepower obviously doesn't have the trust and confidence in his men that -I- have:

In the real war, long range firepower was supplied by the artillery, and lots of it. Even 3" mortars will do the trick in a pinch. And the typical divisional arty battalion had 24, count 'em 24, 25pdr gun howitzers, and even if the shells were a bit smaller than what the US and Germany took as standard, those 24 tubes can still slam down a whole lotta HE in a minute or two.

Michael

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40 minutes ago, Michael Emrys said:

In the real war, long range firepower was supplied by the artillery, and lots of it. Even 3" mortars will do the trick in a pinch. And the typical divisional arty battalion had 24, count 'em 24, 25pdr gun howitzers, and even if the shells were a bit smaller than what the US and Germany took as standard, those 24 tubes can still slam down a whole lotta HE in a minute or two.

Michael

Bah. The spirit of the offense can overcome that HE. Willpower, my good man, willpower.

;)

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1 minute ago, c3k said:

Bah. The spirit of the offense can overcome that HE. Willpower, my good man, willpower.

;)

Wise words, finally a competent field commander around these parts, showing real guts instead of pussyfooting around with artillery, fire superiority and all that nonsense!

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9 hours ago, c3k said:

I'm not gonna say something out of school, but you all do know that the Bren/BAR single-shot "issue" has been logged and is known?

 

And fixed in the patch according to Steve. Is main reason I’m excited and eager for this patch.

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Am not much of a historian, but IIRC Brit SOP was to have a lot of HMG's (Vickers etc.) capable of sustained fire in addition to artillery.  Perhaps it's a scenario design issue if the Brits are not given what they would/should normally have.  Kinda like a scenario with Soviets and no artillery etc.

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On 2/22/2018 at 9:50 PM, Kuderian said:

Hey, check my pic .. yes of course I am high ;) Wouldn't play CM without it!

 

Ithikial often says in his videos that he has a beer on hand whenever playing CM. Of course, being a 400 year old Puritan I disapprove of the use of both beer and Rizlas (or The Devil's Papers as we call them). And I have no use for such things. The Lord always guides me in battle. .... Exits stage right Limey tongue firmly in cheek   --------------->

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On ‎2‎/‎23‎/‎2018 at 4:26 AM, BletchleyGeek said:

That was the QB I played with @SLIM recently... He set the conditions of the match, we thought it would be fun. And IT WAS a fun game, even with those Brens that were as functional as blunderbusses :)

Well, on my side I didn't notice much, I was too busy frantically buddy aiding my casualties...

At short range, the stens drown everything else out anyway.

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To make you all feel good, I set up a QB and played the Brits just so I could feel the pain.

And painful it was, so I can see why you all have reason to complain about the patch that has never appeared.

So why it really has not bothered me since 4.0 came out is likely the event that I have not played the British much since the change

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