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Are we there yet? no.  Are we there yet? no. Sheesh, no it OBVIOUSLY isn't ready yet.   Let's stop pretending that them telling you it isn't ready yet is gonna be earth shattering news or going to help you make some important decision.

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Now, Now...Can we all learn to get along (or Life...Whichever).

The Patch will simply come out in due time, and that is that :-)

 

Edited by JoMc67

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5 minutes ago, IanL said:

OK this has gone form sad to pathetic to vaguely insulting. So, time to stop taking the bait.

Bottom line is BFC decides how much they communicate. Your's and anyone else's unsatisfied expectations don't really change that. I'll see some of you in a different thread. Some likely never again :D

Oooookay... i guess...

Edited by Miller786

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24 minutes ago, IanL said:

OK this has gone form sad to pathetic to vaguely insulting. So, time to stop taking the bait.

Bottom line is BFC decides how much they communicate. Your's and anyone else's unsatisfied expectations don't really change that. I'll see some of you in a different thread. Some likely never again :D

Taking what bait? This is not about you. Why should it be about you? And why is 'seeing' you of any importance? Unlike Steve and you are the same person. :) You are just picturing yourself as the voice of reason. Which you are not. People are asking justified questions and in return calling them sad or pathetic IS arrogant. If screenshots are announced and promised, but nothing happens for more than a month, than there is something wrong with communicating from the side of BF.  Time and  time again reading the same old 'information' is getting on people's nerves. That's quite normal.

And another thing. This forum needs a Young Guard, since the Old Guard is pretty decimated. So let's welcome their comments and questions and make them feel at home, so they will stay with us.

 

 

 

Edited by Aragorn2002

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Well, a long discussion about those problems in engine 4.0 started in April: (10 months ago!). And a lot of people were agreeing there was an important problem.

And Battlefront acknowledged the problem, after a lot of requests from his customers, at least in August (6 months ago):

In my opinion a patch to fix the main problem with engine 4.0 should have been already released. I can not understand the policy that Battlefront is following with engine 4.0. It was released 14 months ago and at least 10 months ago a long discussion was started pointing out an important problem with that engine and stock campaigns. But that is only my opinion, of course.

Txema

Edited by Txema

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God I hope, BF, doesn't just come out and say..."Ok, Forumites, here is your awaited Patch already, and if there is anything wrong with it, then it's to damn bad"...Just hope it doesn't come down to that.

So, Members of the Forum..."Don't Worry, Be Happy".

Edited by JoMc67

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3 minutes ago, JoMc67 said:

God I hope, BF, doesn't just come out and say..."Ok, Forumites, here is your awaited Patch already, and if there is anything wrong with it, then it's to damn bad"...Just hope it doesn't come down to that.

You drama queen. :D There's a huge difference between that and keeping us informed by throwing us some real bones from time to time.

Edited by Aragorn2002

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15 hours ago, sburke said:

 

they haven't done anything in 14 months! <---- fake news

 

No one said they haven't done anything in 14 months. The issue at hand is that the patch has not yet been completed.

 

2 hours ago, IanL said:

OK this has gone form sad to pathetic to vaguely insulting. So, time to stop taking the bait.

If you find people asking about a fix for a product sad or pathetic after 14 months I really don't know what to say. 

You are the only one in this thread throwing around insults.

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1 hour ago, SgtHatred said:

tNo one said they haven't done anything in 14 months. The issue at hand is that the patch has not yet been completed.

If you find people asking about a fix for a product sad or pathetic after 14 months I really don't know what to say. 

You are the only one in this thread throwing around insults.

Correct it hasn't been completed.  You know that,  It is a TAC AI issue that needs to be looked at closely for unintended consequences across the board.  That takes time. What do you expect them to say?  Nope it isn't ready yet.  I guess I am missing the point. You want someone to give you a status update periodically - that someone is Steve and you know how much Steve likes to be spending his time providing status updates that have no real content.

You know it isn't ready, steve knows you know it isn't ready, why does he need to tell you it isn't ready? If he says anything, you'll ask why?  He'll now have to explain (or you guys will complain) why and what they are looking at.  The 10 minute post is now a detailed response that he doesn't want to go into because frankly they are busy and you can't do anything with that info anyway.  It comes down to this- you have a sense of entitlement that you are somehow owed status updates from a developer who is busy.  He sees no point to providing half assed updates and figures time is better spent actually working on product. 

 

As to the insults, Ian wasn't the first actually.  You were. "The old guard comes rushing" is just a euphemism for fanbois.  You know, we know it.  Granted it wasn't the worst insult I have heard...even today.  Still your characterization of a differing opinion on BF communications didn't help the discussion.

 

Edited by sburke

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14 minutes ago, sburke said:

As to the insults, Ian wasn't the first actually.  You were.

LOL I have a friend who calls that the "he hit me back first" defence - he had sons so he had little time for the "he hit me first" defence. But it's true :)

 

14 minutes ago, sburke said:

"The old guard comes rushing" is just a euphemism for fanbois.  You know, we know it. 

LOL good point. As for insults. I was about to say "what insults" but then I reviewed the record...

22 hours ago, IanL said:

^^^ someone is hard or reading :)

Is that really insulting. I guess - maybe? If you thought I was insulting you for suggesting you weren't reading then sorry about that. But wait - you *did* just ignore what @sburke wrote which kinda implied you didn't read it. If you had read it and disagreed then you could have rephrased your point so it was clearer, refuted the counter argument for example. So, not much of an insult but snarky maybe. Sorry I hurt your feelings.

 

4 hours ago, IanL said:

You sound like every bad manager / project manager I have ever met :D .

Oh yeah, in retrospect that was an insult - cause I have worked for some total jerks. I apologize for that. I should have just pointed out that your time lines were totally silly. Any time you spend writing a well thought out article it always takes longer than an hour. You are doing what my bad bosses did - mistaking the act of writing the code (I'm a programmer by profession) as the only thing that needs to be done. They forget that there is research, sometimes experimentation not to mention discussing alternatives and finally doing some testing. The same goes for a well written article if it take you a hour to write it you did way more than that in research, consideration etc. before that. Same idea for a 10 minute post.

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1 hour ago, sburke said:

It comes down to this- you have a sense of entitlement that you are somehow owed status updates from a developer who is busy.  He sees no point to providing half assed updates and figures time is better spent actually working on product. 

 

If more people had a sense of entitlement towards getting what they paid for without defects the world would be a better place. I paid for the 4.0 upgrade and the software it was made for, so yeah I feel entitled to a corrected version. We aren't talking about new content here, we are talking about a defect in something that has already been sold.

 

1 hour ago, sburke said:

As to the insults, Ian wasn't the first actually.  You were. "The old guard comes rushing" is just a euphemism for fanbois.  You know, we know it.  Granted it wasn't the worst insult I have heard...even today.  Still your characterization of a differing opinion on BF communications didn't help the discussion.

Ha. If that's the way you want to interpret it. I think your argument would have a little more validity if I had spiced it up a bit, maybe thrown in a "sad and pathetic" in there. 

 

32 minutes ago, IanL said:
23 hours ago, IanL said:

^^^ someone is hard or reading :)

Is that really insulting. I guess - maybe?

I would say no, or at least I didn't feel insulted. It was pretty clear that you didn't understand my meaning at the time but that's your problem.

 

35 minutes ago, IanL said:

Oh yeah, in retrospect that was an insult - cause I have worked for some total jerks. I apologize for that. I should have just pointed out that your time lines were totally silly. Any time you spend writing a well thought out article it always takes longer than an hour. You are doing what my bad bosses did - mistaking the act of writing the code (I'm a programmer by profession) as the only thing that needs to be done. They forget that there is research, sometimes experimentation not to mention discussing alternatives and finally doing some testing. The same goes for a well written article if it take you a hour to write it you did way more than that in research, consideration etc. before that. Same idea for a 10 minute post.

If you were working on a project for me and you told me that it would take you a day of research and consideration before giving me a quick update on your progress I would fire you without a moment of hesitation. I've removed people from one of my teams for less.

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What's the big deal. Old guard, new guard, your opinion, my opinion. V 4 is better than V 3, V 6 will be better than V 5 and so on. Fun's a poppin', just play the bloody game, life is to short as it is.

 

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19 minutes ago, SgtHatred said:

If more people had a sense of entitlement towards getting what they paid for without defects the world would be a better place. I paid for the 4.0 upgrade and the software it was made for, so yeah I feel entitled to a corrected version. We aren't talking about new content here, we are talking about a defect in something that has already been sold

Ha. If that's the way you want to interpret it. I think your argument would have a little more validity if I had spiced it up a bit, maybe thrown in a "sad and pathetic" in there. 

Point 1- yes I agree.  and BF is working on it.  And in January they noted it was a priority.  And you will get a corrected version.  What I mean by sense of entitlement is more along the lines of somehow the dev is obligated to you personally to satisfy your need to know versus their need to fix the product.  They are doing the fixing and their last note to us all was only last month.  As to getting a product "without defects" that is a slippery slope.  Who gets to decide what is a defect? (In this particular case yeah we are all in agreement that the reaction of pixeltruppen is off - but there are lots of other examples of complaints that are subjective and less uniformity in response).

The last statement (at least as far as I recall) from Steve was this.  It was only like 6 weeks ago.  How often is the expectation that Steve should provide updates?  You've been around long enough that 6 weeks for sure is not within "fairly soon" in "Steve time".  :D  (Sorry Steve).  The one thing folks seem to continually forget -  when Steve is posting a lot, it is nice, but it also means he likely isn't focusing on what we really want. This is one case where you can't have your cake and eat it too.

Point 2.  Yeah sad and pathetic might have spiced it up if my wife hadn't already used it in reference to the work I am doing in the yard....  you might have to go a  little harsher.

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35 minutes ago, SgtHatred said:

If more people had a sense of entitlement towards getting what they paid for without defects the world would be a better place. I paid for the 4.0 upgrade and the software it was made for, so yeah I feel entitled to a corrected version. We aren't talking about new content here, we are talking about a defect in something that has already been sold.

 

 

I think your perception of the 'defect' is different from most of of us players. I have been playing v4.0 since day 1. , every fffing day and my experience is that the AI High Explosive awareness has often saved my troops bacon (despite sometimes my best efforts to thwart them) which more than compensates imho for the odd 'running-away-too-quickly' behaviour. So please tone down the hyperbole( and vitriol) and try and understand  that your opinion of 'defect' is by no means a deal breaker for most of us ( and BF are not sitting on their fat asses' smokin' cigars -  Read Steve's candid post's on BFC's year of 2017).

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33 minutes ago, Kuderian said:

I think your perception of the 'defect' is different from most of of us players. I have been playing v4.0 since day 1. , every fffing day and my experience is that the AI High Explosive awareness has often saved my troops bacon (despite sometimes my best efforts to thwart them) which more than compensates imho for the odd 'running-away-too-quickly' behaviour. So please tone down the hyperbole( and vitriol) and try and understand  that your opinion of 'defect' is by no means a deal breaker for most of us ( and BF are not sitting on their fat asses' smokin' cigars -  Read Steve's candid post's on BFC's year of 2017).

Thanks for stating it that way.

I will say, as a beta-tester, coming to grips with this behavior has been difficult. The NDA prevents a lot of what I'd like say (and is a nice way to dodge ;) ) but realize that the HE fleeing behavior was not seen as a deal-breaker before v4.0 was released...or it would not have been released.

Think about the myriad of situations your pixeltroops have been in. Think about how often they do the right thing...and you don't even notice it. Think about when they do something wrong...and the situation which it took to get that behavior.

Without giving too much (anything?) away, I follow two basic courses of investigation: there are areas I dig into to find stuff; and there are times when I get a whiff of something not quite right. In the first case, I start with a set of presumed behaviors and try to stress them to their outlying limits. In the other case, I happen to notice something in passing...and then the Eye of Sauron focuses upon it. ;)

There are fewer and fewer of each. And the gameplay effect of most are very minor.

I can field multiple battalions and have total mayhem reign for four hours...and notice only a few odd cases of behavior. Most (all?) can be explained by men panicking under fire or other reasonable explanations. Think about the magnitude of that achievement: several hundreds of "men" acting realistically over multiple square kilometers whilst killing and being killed and trying to achieve a terrain objective.

The HE behavior slipped through. Now, what if the fix is worse? Maybe men will stick in their locations, but then tanks reverse towards threats. But only if unbuttoned and the threat is known but out of LOS. And only on odd numbered turns. 

Occam's Razor: if the fix were simple, wouldn't you have it already?

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51 minutes ago, c3k said:

Thanks for stating it that way.

I will say, as a beta-tester, coming to grips with this behavior has been difficult. The NDA prevents a lot of what I'd like say (and is a nice way to dodge ;) ) but realize that the HE fleeing behavior was not seen as a deal-breaker before v4.0 was released...or it would not have been released.

Think about the myriad of situations your pixeltroops have been in. Think about how often they do the right thing...and you don't even notice it. Think about when they do something wrong...and the situation which it took to get that behavior.

Without giving too much (anything?) away, I follow two basic courses of investigation: there are areas I dig into to find stuff; and there are times when I get a whiff of something not quite right. In the first case, I start with a set of presumed behaviors and try to stress them to their outlying limits. In the other case, I happen to notice something in passing...and then the Eye of Sauron focuses upon it. ;)

There are fewer and fewer of each. And the gameplay effect of most are very minor.

I can field multiple battalions and have total mayhem reign for four hours...and notice only a few odd cases of behavior. Most (all?) can be explained by men panicking under fire or other reasonable explanations. Think about the magnitude of that achievement: several hundreds of "men" acting realistically over multiple square kilometers whilst killing and being killed and trying to achieve a terrain objective.

The HE behavior slipped through. Now, what if the fix is worse? Maybe men will stick in their locations, but then tanks reverse towards threats. But only if unbuttoned and the threat is known but out of LOS. And only on odd numbered turns. 

Occam's Razor: if the fix were simple, wouldn't you have it already?

Finally,  somebody has come up with some sort of reasonable answer instead of just ranting off..... Thank you.

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18 minutes ago, Hilts said:

Finally,  somebody has come up with some sort of reasonable answer instead of just ranting off..... Thank you.

LOL how is what c3k said any different than the first posts on the last page that Ian and I said?  Okay yeah it is c3k and all, but still the gist of what is in there "it is a complicated issue to figure out the TAC AI and not cause other issues and therefore it takes time" is what we said.  You still don't know anything you didn't already know and yet now it's "finally ........".  Man I'd feel insulted, except I like how c3k stated it too......  <_<

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Ok first off this other “Miller” is an importer. 

 

Second, go ahead and tag based Steve in yet another thread he needs to close down. This is going nowhere good. 

Here, I’ll prove my point by posting a rational statement and then watch as the usual village idiots flock in and spew their bile:

i wish we got more frequent updates from BFC. It’s nice to see things develop, even if it’s a slow pace. That said, it’s not my decision, and I understand  why they may be more focused on other things than constantly posting tweet sized status updates on the forums. As long as BFC continues to produce, I’m happy. Though I will say I really hope we hear about the patch soon. I almost want that more than title releases at this point. Again though, I don’t speak for everyone or BFC, and even if I did speak for everyone here, a majority doesn’t make you right. 

Now where is that damn popcorn emoji...

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6 hours ago, Kuderian said:

I think your perception of the 'defect' is different from most of of us players. I have been playing v4.0 since day 1. ,

So why are people complaining about it?

 

8 minutes ago, IICptMillerII said:

Second, go ahead and tag based Steve in yet another thread he needs to close down. This is going nowhere good. 

Why?

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