Jump to content
  • Announcements

    • Battlefront.com

      Special Upgrade 4 Tech Tips   12/27/2016

      Hi all! Now that Upgrade 4 is out and about in large quantities we have now discovered a few SNAFUs that happen out in the scary, real world that is home computing.  Fortunately the rate of problems is extremely small and so far most are easily worked around.  We've identified a few issues that have similar causes which we have clear instructions for work arounds here they are: 1.  CMRT Windows customers need to re-license their original key.  This is a result of improvements to the licensing system which CMBN, CMBS, and CMFB are already using.  To do this launch CMRT with the Upgrade and the first time enter your Engine 4 key.  Exit and then use the "Activate New Products" shortcut in your CMRT folder, then enter your Engine 3 license key.  That should do the trick. 2.  CMRT and CMBN MacOS customers have a similar situation as #2, however the "Activate New Products" is inside the Documents folder in their respective CM folders.  For CMBN you have to go through the process described above for each of your license keys.  There is no special order to follow. 3.  For CMBS and CMFB customers, you need to use the Activate New Products shortcut and enter your Upgrade 4 key.  If you launch the game and see a screen that says "LICENSE FAILURE: Base Game 4.0 is required." that is an indication you haven't yet gone through that procedure.  Provided you had a properly functioning copy before installing the Upgrade, that should be all you need to do.  If in the future you have to install from scratch on a new system you'll need to do the same procedure for both your original license key and your Upgrade 4.0 key. 4.  There's always a weird one and here it is.  A few Windows users are not getting "Activate New Products" shortcuts created during installation.  Apparently anti-virus software is preventing the installer from doing its job.  This might not be a problem right now, but it will prove to be an issue at some point in the future.  The solution is to create your own shortcut using the following steps: Disable your anti-virus software before you do anything. Go to your Desktop, right click on the Desktop itself, select NEW->SHORTCUT, use BROWSE to locate the CM EXE that you are trying to fix. The location is then written out. After it type in a single space and then paste this:

      -showui

      Click NEXT and give your new Shortcut a name (doesn't matter what). Confirm that and you're done. Double click on the new Shortcut and you should be prompted to license whatever it is you need to license. At this time we have not identified any issues that have not been worked around.  Let's hope it stays that way Steve
    • Battlefront.com

      Instructions for Upgrading CMFI to Engine 4   04/09/2017

      Upgrading CMFI to Engine 4 requires prior product purchases be relicensed.  This is because we've updated the copy protection software.  This is a one time thing which also affected CMBN Mac and CMRT for both platforms, so some of you will find these instructions familiar.  The method of relicensing is flexible, but here's the optimal method: 1.  After installing using the Full or Update installers, launch the game.  You'll be prompted to license.  Enter you Engine 4 license key and exit. 2.  Use the "Activate New Products" short cut in your CMFI folder to launch the game with the license window.  Enter your Engine 3 license key.  If you bought the Upgrade 3 + 4 Bundle then you can skip this step. 3.  Use the "Activate New Products" short again and enter your Engine 2 license key *IF* you have one, otherwise skip this step.  Note that CMFI started it's life was Engine 2, therefore if you owned the game prior to Upgrade 3 coming out then your CMFI Base Game license key is your Engine 2 key. 4.  If you purchased Gustav Line as a separate product, use "Activate New Products" again and enter your Gustav license key.  If you bought Gustav as a Bundle, it should already be activated. If you should run into any issues, try to figure out what key is missing (the game should give you adequate feedback for that) and use "Activate New Products" link to allow you to enter whichever key is needed.  If you still have a problem, especially if you bought a Gustav Line Bundle (some keys definitely didn't transition correctly!), file with our Help Desk and include the license key you're having problems with: https://battlefront.mojohelpdesk.com If you can not find your license keys sent to you by email, no problem.  Go to your store account and check your Order History.  Keys and download links are always there for you unless you ordered a "hardgoods only" option.  In that case your license keys are on the back of the CD/DVD cases that came in the mail. Also good to know... if a download link in an email confirmation doesn't work, go to Order History and try from there.
    • Battlefront.com

      Forum Reorganization   10/12/2017

      We've reorganized our Combat Mission Forums to reflect the fact that most of you are now running Engine 4 and that means you're all using the same basic code.  Because of that, there's no good reason to have the discussion about Combat Mission spread out over 5 separate sets of Forums.  There is now one General Discussion area with Tech Support and Scenario/Mod Tips sub forums.  The Family specific Tech Support Forums have been moved to a new CM2 Archives area and frozen in place. You might also notice we dropped the "x" from distinguishing between the first generation of CM games and the second.  The "x" was reluctantly adopted back in 2005 or so because at the time we had the original three CM games on European store shelves entitled CM1, CM2, and CM3 (CMBO, CMBB, and CMAK).  We didn't want to cause confusion so we added the "x".  Time has moved on and we have to, so the "x" is now gone from our public vocabulary as it has been from our private vocabulary for quite a while already.  Side note, Charles *NEVER* used the "x" so now we're all speaking the same language as him.  Which is important since he is the one programming them
John Kettler

M4 & M4A1 gunnery optics surprise

Recommended Posts

Got quite the shock recently when reading Zaloga's Armored Thunderbolt, which covers many little-addressed aspects of the Sherman and the Sherman in combat. Was astounded to learn that both the M4 and M4A1 in the narrow mantlet first version (called Sherman 1.0 by him) did not have a telescopic gunsight, but instead had a 1X gunner's periscope on the turret roof. Unsurprisingly, this didn't sit well with the British in the Western Desert, and urgent fixes to this were applied in the wide mantlet intermediate model (Sherman 1.5). I don't own CMFI, but I was wondering whether this to me astounding lack of magnified gunner optics on the original Sherman types  is modeled in the game? If that's not tactically significant, I don't know what is.

Regards,

John Kettler

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Would this be a timeframe issue in terms of CMFI?

I'd assume something like this would have been addressed by the American Army prior to the Sicily landings, particuarly if they discovered the problems with the Sherman in Tunisia. Still would be a good thing to model in any CM: Africa game. Commanding the green/troubled US Army in it's first major deployment in late '42 and early '43 would be quite interesting for us Armchair Generals I think. :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

While you can sometimes see very old Shermans (with M3 style bogies) in pictures from Sicily, Italy & even Southern France in 1943-44, I'd very much doubt any of them would still rely on the periscope.....I can't guarantee it, there are exceptions to every rule where the Sherman is concerned, but the numbers would be so staggeringly small I don't think it should effect the game.

EarlyM4A1France1944

Early M4A1, Operation Dragoon, France, 25 August 1944

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Guys,

From what I read, if it's got the narrow M34 mantlet (no aperture other than for coax), then all it has is the 1X roof mounted gunner's sight. I find it practically impossible to believe that at the time Sicily was invaded we didn't have lots of such Shermans running around. A quick "Google search under "Shermans in Sicily" turned up numerous examples, including landing operations. Am unqualified to speak on how fast improved Shermans (with wider M34A1 mantlet featuring a prominent opening for the gunner's telescope on the TC's side of the turret) made it to the MTO thereafter.

Further, got brother George interested, and he sent me some Bing links. But you don't need them, for a simple search under "Shermans in Italy" turns up many examples and from a variety of nations.

All in all, I do believe there's evidence to support my contention there may well be a valid issue here, one I believe deserves some sort of response from BFC or one of its designated voices. That said, I have no idea whether or not this gunsight situation is modeled already or somehow got missed.

Regards,

John Kettler

Edited by John Kettler

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You are right JK, they are still very common in Sicily, I'm surprised at just how common in fact.....Well spotted fella.  B) 

I'd got it into my head that this applied only to the earliest vehicles with the M3 style bogies (which is ironic really as I've built enough Sherman models to know better), but that isn't the case as you can clearly see.

I'm guessing these were tanks delivered to North Africa from the initial batches (I actually have the wherewithal to check, but I'm too tired tonight!  ;)), they seem to start being replaced in fairly significant numbers by the time of the invasion of Italy, but they are not as uncommon as I'd expected even there.

PS - I should probably also check whether the periscope optic was upgraded at all, Shermans can be tricky like that.....Some of these early Shermans certainly received upgrades prior to arriving in Italy, as the presence of cheek & hull applique on several examples indicates .

Edited by Sgt.Squarehead

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Did some more checking.....The early gunner's periscope incorporated a M38 1.44-power telescopic sight, later replaced by the M38A2 telescope with 'superior reticle pattern'. 

This sight was not further upgraded as far as I can see, but it was retained as a back-up when M70F 3-power direct telescopic sights were fitted with the M34A1 mantlet.

Edited by Sgt.Squarehead

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Narrow mantlet Shermans without coaxial gunner's sight is certainly in CMFI. There's so much unseen going on 'under the hood', though, that its impossible to say how gunner accuracy is affected without extensive testing (which may have happened years ago). My *guess* is early Sherman types receive a penalty of some sort.

I read a first use report by crews of then-new Panthers complaining to the manufacturer that the Panther gunner ONLY has a high-powered telescopic sight. They said it greatly reduced the gunners situational awareness over T-34 (and Sherman) which included a secondary panoramic periscope for the gunner. The manufacturer did nothing to address their concerns, except give the loader a periscope.

 

Narrow mantlet.jpg

Edited by MikeyD

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

M4 Sherman at War, by Brown and Green, has a useful description of the M38, successors, and Sherman gunnery on p.86 et seq. Book says the M38 was 1.44X, the same number Andy reported above. Adding to the confusion is what's on The Sherman Site on this matter. It says the M38 was 1X and launches from there into subsequent Sherman sights and FCS material. In any event, it's clear the M38 sysyem was a mess because of linkage issues causing lots of misses, and the successors required a lot of work, too.

Regards,

John Kettler

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Have a plot twist to the story, and it involves the CMBN side of things for the CW. Just got off the horn with brother George, who informed me the British, for reasons he didn't understand, did not do the upgrade kits that put the wide mantlet and the all-important telescopic sight on what had been narrow mantlet Shermans with their associated optical deficits. He thought this was pretty shocking, considering it was the British who raised a ruckus about optics in the first place. He further noted they didn't fit the protective plates to the near vertical driver and bow gunner bulges in the glacis and didn't always have sponson armor added, either. Said the overall situation was the norm in Normandy, and that they were still campaigning narrow mantlet Shermans at Arnhem! Seems to me this is something which ought to be looked into because of its potentially substantial impact on combat performance and also addressed by scenario builders. He sent a photo to my phone of a British welded hull Sherman in Normandy in June 1944, and that tank is very much the OEM first model with the narrow mantlet. Not sure what the situation was for the Canadians and the Poles.

Regards,

John Kettler

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

Since you've brought this up I've noticed the old mantlet in quite a few images (one does once one starts looking)

2 hours ago, John Kettler said:

Said the overall situation was the norm in Normandy, and that they were still campaigning narrow mantlet Shermans at Arnhem!

Looking through images in a couple of texts now (from the Armour At War range), it seems almost 50% of the British Shermans pictured (at least up until the time of the breakout) still had the early narrow mantlet.   While almost all of them seem to have the sponson & turret cheek applique, almost none of them have applique over the driver & radio operator's hatch bulges.

Nice spot JK (& family).....Have another.  ;)

Edited by Sgt.Squarehead

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Brother George sent me a phone pic of a vanilla (narrow mantlet) US Sherman destroyed ner Villiers-Frossard (hard to tell, partial caption in frame) in support of an also not in frame infantry division number. Tank was destroyed on June 13, 1944 and has the OEM M34 series mantlet, so has gunner's periscopic sight only. Might be instructive to start inspecting the unit rolls to see how common the original model Shermans were for the US at Normandy.

Further inquiry resulted in being told the photo is from page 16 of Zaloga's Panzer IV vs Sherman. Tank is from B CO 747th TK BN. 

https://www.amazon.com/Panzer-IV-Sherman-France-1944/dp/147280760X  

Short video review of above. Kitmaker TV YT channel has many more of these short video reviews.
 

Regards,

John Kettler

Edited by John Kettler

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×