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kr0114

how about terrain and environment in southern France?

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i heard US Forces fought in Northern France stuck in the bocage and it was pretty hard to advance,

but didnt know about southern France after operation Dragoon. is there bocages too?

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The term bocage means a heavily wooden countryside. As opposed to a type of hedgerow, as it is used in the game. It is not exclusive to Normandy, e.g there is a Villers - Bocage in the Somme Departement. There were some battles from Operation Dragoon included on the bonus disc that came with the original game "Beyond Overlord", 17 or 18 years ago. My fading memory seems to tell me that the terrain was more akin to that now used in Fortress Italy.

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13 hours ago, Warts 'n' all said:

The term bocage means a heavily wooden countryside. As opposed to a type of hedgerow, as it is used in the game. It is not exclusive to Normandy, e.g there is a Villers - Bocage in the Somme Departement. There were some battles from Operation Dragoon included on the bonus disc that came with the original game "Beyond Overlord", 17 or 18 years ago. My fading memory seems to tell me that the terrain was more akin to that now used in Fortress Italy.

thx for info! i recently interested in southern front of france and caen,im gonna play CMBN again then :)

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15 hours ago, Warts 'n' all said:

 There were some battles from Operation Dragoon included on the bonus disc that came with the original game "Beyond Overlord", 17 or 18 years ago.

Really? I never heard of that, and I surely would have bought it if I had.

Michael

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There's a scenario that takes place just west of Orleans following the Cobra breakout (A Delaying Action). About as far east as the game gets before the Arnhem module. Its not quite the Champaign campaign and not a large maneuver map, but it gets you out of hedgerow country at least.

'Bocage' in Normandy is a generic name for a particular terrain feature. Densely overgrown field partitions too thick to be easily penetrated, often with an ancient rock wall core covered in stout roots. You'll notice in the Bulge title the 'bocage' is no longer impenetrable. Because mere tall roadside foliage is a different animal than a fearsome Normandy hedgerow.

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5 hours ago, Michael Emrys said:

Really? I never heard of that, and I surely would have bought it if I had.

Michael

I don't know how long after the original release I bought "Beyond Overlord" but, I don't remember seeing it here in Limeyland without the bonus disc. Sadly, it's been so long since I played it, and I don't even know if I still have my old score book, so I can't even tell you the name of any of the Dragoon battles. Hopefully someone can tell us.

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16 hours ago, MikeyD said:

You'll notice in the Bulge title the 'bocage' is no longer impenetrable.

I had wondered about this but haven't played enough FB to check it out.

Michael

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On 8.2.2018 at 4:50 AM, kr0114 said:

i heard US Forces fought in Northern France stuck in the bocage and it was pretty hard to advance,

but didnt know about southern France after operation Dragoon. is there bocages too?

“Southern France” is pretty unspecific. You are talking about a 500k wide front.

In veeery broad terms:

To the very west, from Atlantic Ocean to Mediterranean Sea, you have the pretty rugged foothills of the Pyrennees.

Along the Mediterranean Coast, from the Spanish border almost up to the Italian border, comes a, say 100k wide stretch of rural farmland. Quite open, rolling hills, scattered small forests.

Behind that,  to the north and stretching west to east, is the Cevennes mountain range, say 60k wide. Not too high mountains, max about 1500m, but quite rugged and with dense forests.

At their east end, the Cevennes merge with the French Alps, which continue into Italy and Switzerland.

 Behind the coastal zone, traffic north is quite much channeled by a handful of river valleys, running north to south into the Mediterranean Sea.

All not too densely populated, but with many small, compact villages and towns, as well as some bigger cities. Ah, not to forget: Many pretty sturdy Chateaus scattered over the country.

So, no Bocage or hedge country, but difficult to navigate. I understand, after Operation Dragoon, large bodies of the German army escaped to the North, because the US followed only very cautiously, in constant fear of ambushes.

Edited by StieliAlpha

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On 2/9/2018 at 2:46 AM, Michael Emrys said:

Really? I never heard of that, and I surely would have bought it if I had.

Michael

Having just moved home, whilst unpacking I found my copy of Beyond Overlord and took a look at the contents of the Bonus Disc, without actually re-installing the game. Judging by the names and the dates there are 6 or 7 scenarios based in the South of France. Whilst the good old Operations covered a period from Market Garden through to Mid-January. There is even a couple of folders of Mods which I don't remember seeing at the time. 

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On ‎9‎/‎02‎/‎2018 at 12:00 PM, kr0114 said:

thx for info! i recently interested in southern front of france and caen,im gonna play CMBN again then :)

That's all very well but you're stuffed unless somebody makes a scenario or campaign depicting it - otherwise you're just playing a QB.

I guess that not many people have thought about depicting actions in that campaign because of a perception that very little happened in that campaign. I disagree with that view, as I'm sure the men and women who fought in that campaign but compared to the epic and well-documented battles for Normandy it is easy to see why people think that very little happened.

I think that there are some interesting possibilities there for both scenarios and campaigns but you've got to find someone who is willing to create them or do it yourself.

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