Jump to content
  • Announcements

    • Battlefront.com

      Special Upgrade 4 Tech Tips   12/27/2016

      Hi all! Now that Upgrade 4 is out and about in large quantities we have now discovered a few SNAFUs that happen out in the scary, real world that is home computing.  Fortunately the rate of problems is extremely small and so far most are easily worked around.  We've identified a few issues that have similar causes which we have clear instructions for work arounds here they are: 1.  CMRT Windows customers need to re-license their original key.  This is a result of improvements to the licensing system which CMBN, CMBS, and CMFB are already using.  To do this launch CMRT with the Upgrade and the first time enter your Engine 4 key.  Exit and then use the "Activate New Products" shortcut in your CMRT folder, then enter your Engine 3 license key.  That should do the trick. 2.  CMRT and CMBN MacOS customers have a similar situation as #2, however the "Activate New Products" is inside the Documents folder in their respective CM folders.  For CMBN you have to go through the process described above for each of your license keys.  There is no special order to follow. 3.  For CMBS and CMFB customers, you need to use the Activate New Products shortcut and enter your Upgrade 4 key.  If you launch the game and see a screen that says "LICENSE FAILURE: Base Game 4.0 is required." that is an indication you haven't yet gone through that procedure.  Provided you had a properly functioning copy before installing the Upgrade, that should be all you need to do.  If in the future you have to install from scratch on a new system you'll need to do the same procedure for both your original license key and your Upgrade 4.0 key. 4.  There's always a weird one and here it is.  A few Windows users are not getting "Activate New Products" shortcuts created during installation.  Apparently anti-virus software is preventing the installer from doing its job.  This might not be a problem right now, but it will prove to be an issue at some point in the future.  The solution is to create your own shortcut using the following steps: Disable your anti-virus software before you do anything. Go to your Desktop, right click on the Desktop itself, select NEW->SHORTCUT, use BROWSE to locate the CM EXE that you are trying to fix. The location is then written out. After it type in a single space and then paste this:

      -showui

      Click NEXT and give your new Shortcut a name (doesn't matter what). Confirm that and you're done. Double click on the new Shortcut and you should be prompted to license whatever it is you need to license. At this time we have not identified any issues that have not been worked around.  Let's hope it stays that way Steve
    • Battlefront.com

      Forum Reorganization   10/12/2017

      We've reorganized our Combat Mission Forums to reflect the fact that most of you are now running Engine 4 and that means you're all using the same basic code.  Because of that, there's no good reason to have the discussion about Combat Mission spread out over 5 separate sets of Forums.  There is now one General Discussion area with Tech Support and Scenario/Mod Tips sub forums.  The Family specific Tech Support Forums have been moved to a new CM2 Archives area and frozen in place. You might also notice we dropped the "x" from distinguishing between the first generation of CM games and the second.  The "x" was reluctantly adopted back in 2005 or so because at the time we had the original three CM games on European store shelves entitled CM1, CM2, and CM3 (CMBO, CMBB, and CMAK).  We didn't want to cause confusion so we added the "x".  Time has moved on and we have to, so the "x" is now gone from our public vocabulary as it has been from our private vocabulary for quite a while already.  Side note, Charles *NEVER* used the "x" so now we're all speaking the same language as him.  Which is important since he is the one programming them

Recommended Posts

I've been testing, playing around with a new CMBS scenario in Engine 4.0.  I have assigned units as a spot unit objective.  During testing I received no notification that my player controlled unit has spotted the designated OpFor unit.  Of course I know the designated unit has been spotted since I designed the scenario.  Maybe I'm doing something wrong.  Isn't there an on screen, in game notification that the " spot unit objective" was completed?  I have "known to player" selected in the editor.  After I hit cease fire and look at the AAR screen the objective is displayed and the points are rewarded just can't see it during the game.  Any ideas?   Is it suppose to work this way?  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As far as I'm concerned, this is the purview of a well-worded briefing.  

Edit: This sounded dismissive; to expand: yes, it's meant to work that way. Proper zone recons are rare in the game so there's few examples of a good briefing to look for. I'll use "Wadi Scouts" from CM:SF, as its simple and instructive.

BLUFOR briefing reads:

"Your mission is to scout out the defenses at this part of the line. If fired on, you are allowed to return fire, but preserving your force is of utmost importance. Your primary goal is to identify the location of the enemy HQ unit and the general displacement of the enemy forces. Secondary goal is to locate the position of enemy minefields that are suspected in the Wadi. If you do identify a gap and meet no opposition, you are allowed to cross and establish a perimeter on the other side. "

My emphasis. In the unit objectives BLFUOR is awarded up to 200 points each total for spotting mines and enemy units. Everything should be inferred in mission by the player. 

Edited by Rinaldi

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For my purposes I would include it in the briefing but how does the player know when he has completed the objective by spotting the correct unit.  At a lower skill level, where I think you are allowed to see the OpFor unit designation, this might work.  "Spot OpFor 1st Platoon engineers".  But on Elite and Iron how do you know when/if you spotted the correct unit and completed that part of the mission?  And in the editor there is the choice, known to player, known to both etc... 

Just to be clear, I'm not arguing how it should work.  I'm asking how is it intended to work.  Possibly I'm doing something wrong or there is a bug or this is just how it is intended to work.  My first guess is I'm doing something wrong. 

Just to make sure these three see this I'll tag them.  @Combatintman @Sgt.Squarehead @George MC?

Thanks for any help.  I also tried it on known to both. 

Edited by MOS:96B2P

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
33 minutes ago, MOS:96B2P said:

how do you know when/if you spotted the correct unit and completed that part of the mission?

Really glad someone raised this as I have been very confused about this in other similar "recon" missions.  The player should know if he's spotted a target unit just like we're notified by text when we reach a "Touch" objective.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, MOS:96B2P said:

For my purposes I would include it in the briefing but how does the player know when he has completed the objective by spotting the correct unit.  At a lower skill level, where I think you are allowed to see the OpFor unit designation, this might work.  "Spot OpFor 1st Platoon engineers".  But on Elite and Iron how do you know when/if you spotted the correct unit and completed that part of the mission?  And in the editor there is the choice, known to player, known to both etc... 

Just to be clear, I'm not arguing how it should work.  I'm asking how is it intended to work.  Possibly I'm doing something wrong or there is a bug or this is just how it is intended to work.  My first guess is I'm doing something wrong. 

Just to make sure these three see this I'll tag them.  @Combatintman @Sgt.Squarehead @George MC?

Thanks for any help.  I also tried it on known to both. 

Can't add much more to this I'm afraid. I've really only used the 'spot' objective for ALL enemy units - so the more you spot the more points you get (although unlikely you will spot every enemy unit). 

I also tend to play on 'Elite' so you get hee haw info when you spot or KO stuff.

I would have thoughts, and certainly at the "lower" skill levels that you would get more info re spotting enemy units (assuming this has been actioned by the designer) AND that the 'known to enemy' has been actioned also. If you are not getting that info then I would assume something is up?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, George MC said:

If you are not getting that info then I would assume something is up?

It may be that the designers simply overlooked this lack and it hasn't come up in play often enough to generate a discussion before. I agree with those who say it should be included, just for the sake of completeness if nothing else.

Michael

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My guess is that it is not included. I can't recall ever reading about it in the manuals...How this messaging should work etc..

It might also be one of those little things that are not so simple to fix as it might first seem...

For example...If the designer chooses part of a formation to be the UNIT OBJECTIVE (ONE unit objective) asigned a spotting task...A platoon or a Company maybe...

How should spotting this be 'messaged' to the player ? A message everytime the player spots one unit from that platoon/company  ? 

or

No message at all until the entire platoon/Company have been spotted...

Neither is perfect imo...

I would also like to see some kind of confirmation that the task have been completed but it might not be quite so easy as we would like...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Michael Emrys said:

It may be that the designers simply overlooked this lack and it hasn't come up in play often enough to generate a discussion before. I agree with those who say it should be included, just for the sake of completeness if nothing else.

Michael

Good point, and I think you are correct Michael.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@MOS:96B2P

Don't know the answer either but my guess is if you look at the other unit objective types ('destroy' or 'destroy all) and then count how many times in game (spoiler alert .... zero  .... spoiler ends ;)) that you have been notified that you have scored some points ('destroy') or that you have scored all of the points ('destroy all') then the deduction has to be that unit objectives don't provide feedback during execute. You only get that at the endgame screen.

So for my money (not much) @Rinaldi is bang on - this is all about what you say in the briefing and to be honest I think this is the way it should be.

To go into the tradecraft of it (because I know you're all over this), the type of mission that I think (and hope) that you're designing is some sort of recce activity. So to step back to the planning stage, the '2' shop will have looked at signature equipment and the time and space issue to formulate NAIs and the (off the top of my head) SIRs which are effectively the mission/specified tasks for the recce element. So that would translate into something fairly concrete to work with eg:

Mission:

1 Recce Sect is to cover NAI 1 from 010800Z to 011200ZMar18 in order to locate the enemy main axis.

The task verb is probably a bit shaky but hey ho ...

The specified tasks or other bits of the order would then depend on the situation but of course would be driven by that initial IPB and the resultant collection plan etc. This is all stuff  that you can plug into the mission briefing for the scenario in the game. Of course there is always a balance to strike with what goes in and what doesn't but it is always best to work on the assumption that with a spot objective that you probably need to be fairly specific. Fortunately I don't think this is overly unrealistic because there are plenty of things you can do with this sort of mission to spice things up and add surprises and challenges for the player eg

Have an NAI where the player has to spot everything that rolls through it in a particular timeframe. Potential challenges for the player are:

  1. Getting eyes on to the NAI without getting whacked or spotted on the infiltration.
  2. Getting eyes on the NAI at the time specified.
  3. Extracting from the NAI to friendly territory without getting whacked or spotted on the exfiltration.
  4. Getting to friendly territory in a specified time frame.

I understand the balance will be trickier to achieve when victory depends on seeing one thing only or identifying a CRP or similar but you can still build the same dynamics around the mission in terms of:

  1. Getting there and back.
  2. Being seen or not seen.
  3. Being zapped or not zapped.

Anyways ... @George MC, who I can see has already answered is more of an expert than I am because I know that he has actually used spot objectives in Mission/Campaign design whereas I haven't to my recollection (Mission 1 of George's KG Schroif has spotting as part of the mix) .... so, if you've got this far then perhaps my answer is .... whatever George says ;)

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 hours ago, George MC said:

<Snip>  I've really only used the 'spot' objective for ALL enemy units - so the more you spot the more points you get (although unlikely you will spot every enemy unit). <Snip>

This is an interesting way to use the spot objectives.  I think you also used spot objectives once for friendly reinforcements getting spotted by the OpFor.  So there was a choice to commit friendly reserves for a point penalty or fight on with out committing them.  I will probably steal this idea from you :).  

 

11 hours ago, RepsolCBR said:

My guess is that it is not included. <Snip>  How should spotting this be 'messaged' to the player ? A message everytime the player spots one unit?  or No message at all until the entire platoon/Company have been spotted... Neither is perfect imo...  <Snip>  it might not be quite so easy as we would like...

As usual good point.  While I was hoping the spot was messaged to the player and I was just doing it wrong I never stopped to think how it would be messaged.  Or more to the point, how often it would be messaged.  If there were dozens of OpFor spot objectives or the entire OpFor combat team was a spot objective, as @George MC has used them, I can see where the multiple notifications might get annoying.  Looks like everything is working as intended.   

 

2 hours ago, Combatintman said:

<Snip>   if you look at the other unit objective types ('destroy' or 'destroy all) and then count how many times in game (spoiler alert .... zero  .... spoiler ends ;)) that you have been notified that you have scored some points ('destroy') or that you have scored all of the points ('destroy all') then the deduction has to be that unit objectives don't provide feedback during execute. You only get that at the endgame screen.  So for my money (not much) @Rinaldi is bang on - this is all about what you say in the briefing and to be honest I think this is the way it should be.  <Snip> 

To go into the tradecraft of it (because I know you're all over this), the type of mission that I think (and hope) that you're designing is some sort of recce activity. <Snip>  

And in that deduction lay the answer I was looking for and failed to see.  Thanks for the spoiler alert :lol:.   Everything is working as intended and as @Rinaldisaid up top, it will have to be handled in a well worded briefing. 

I'm not working on conventional recon activity but a counter insurgency scenario where hopefully intelligence gathering will play a useful role in identifying where the Separatist will strike next.   Blue force can use this intelligence to protect infrastructure and hunt down Separatist columns.   It is also heavy with triggers and features exit zones.  Not a spoiler but just a generic example: If the Separatists are successful at taking control of the power plant (even temporarily) this "triggers" two more attacks, one on checkpoint #3 and one on the radio station.  If either or both of those attacks are successful then they trigger additional Separatist activity.................  This in addition to timed events that will happen anyways.  Having fun with this.

Thanks for the detailed second half of your response.  I copied it and saved it to my scenario designed notes for future reference.         

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 minutes ago, MOS:96B2P said:

 I think you also used spot objectives once for friendly reinforcements getting spotted by the OpFor.  So there was a choice to commit friendly reserves for a point penalty or fight on with out committing them. 

 

This is a very clever trick ! B)

In scenarios i have created previously in wich i wanted to include RESERVES i have soloved the problem with not having a reserve-feature in the game as of yet in another way.

One that requires both the use of AI-Groups as well as terrain objectives. This sounds like a far superior way of achiving the same result...

 

21 minutes ago, MOS:96B2P said:

I will probably steal this idea from you :).  

 

Me too ! :P

Edited by RepsolCBR

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 hours ago, Rinaldi said:

BLUFOR briefing reads:

"Your mission is to scout out the defenses at this part of the line. If fired on, you are allowed to return fire, but preserving your force is of utmost importance. Your primary goal is to identify the location of the enemy HQ unit and the general displacement of the enemy forces. Secondary goal is to locate the position of enemy minefields that are suspected in the Wadi. If you do identify a gap and meet no opposition, you are allowed to cross and establish a perimeter on the other side. "

My emphasis. In the unit objectives BLFUOR is awarded up to 200 points each total for spotting mines and enemy units. Everything should be inferred in mission by the player. 

I just noticed your edit.  This is interesting.  I also attempted to use mines as a spot unit objective but so far have not been able to make it work.  The editor will allow the mines to be assigned as a spot unit objective but the results never show in the AAR screen.  I have had units find the mines, even set some of them off.  But it never shows on the AAR screen at all.  Not as objective accomplished and not as objective failed.  Nothing at all.  I had given up that it was possible.  I think I'll open Wadi Scouts in the editor and take a look.  Maybe some change in the game engine or again I'm doing something wrong..........   

Thanks for the info. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've experimented with spot objectives a few times and I've never noticed a 'crunch & text'.....If it could be triggered it would be a very useful feature as you could use the objective name to confer other info. 

TBH my experiments have been pretty open & shut about the objectives in question, 'It's a big green tank with missiles and a twirly radar thing on top' etc.  ;)

Edited by Sgt.Squarehead

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just to reinforce what I said earlier, one of the CMSF British module campaign missions had spot objectives. The basic premise was that a recce element had to spot as much as it could on an airfield. I tested it a couple of times and I don't recall any notifications during execute.

Developing my earlier narrative further, you could use spot objectives in a COIN campaign construct where a key part of the campaign is to say, identify an insurgent leader and then track them to a bed down location over a series of missions. Obviously individual mission VPs need to be structured to make spotting the leader the difference between defeat and victory.  You could have some interesting branches where not spotting the leader leads to more attacks and a lower campaign end score while spotting the leader leads to fewer missions, the leader's quick elimination and a higher campaign victory score.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
51 minutes ago, Sgt.Squarehead said:

you could use the objective name to confer other info.   

Yep, this is the other part of what I was hoping to do. :D 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"...a choice to commit friendly reserves for a point penalty or fight on with out committing them." 

So, you can withhold committing reserves to gain additional victory points?  Or, commit reserves and lose VP's?

I recall hoping this would be in CM3.  This feature is available in CM2?? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
26 minutes ago, Erwin said:

"...a choice to commit friendly reserves for a point penalty or fight on with out committing them." 

So, you can withhold committing reserves to gain additional victory points?  Or, commit reserves and lose VP's?

I recall hoping this would be in CM3.  This feature is available in CM2?? 

Well it's kind of a workaround but yes by using the unit spot objective.  Commit reserves (reinforcements) and lose victory points because the reinforcements you commit will mostly be spotted by the OpFor.  So there is a trade off.  Use the reinforcements to take the terrain objectives and lose some points due to them being spotted or leave them out of sight (in the setup zone probably) and try to finish the job with the forces you have in the field now.  A command decision.  Very cool. :D  You were part of the conversation.  See the below link.   Click on your name in the below link and it will take you to the correct part of the conversation.  If you click on the title it will take you to the first page. 

 

 

Edited by MOS:96B2P

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, MOS:96B2P said:

Commit reserves (reinforcements) and lose victory points because the reinforcements you commit will mostly be spotted by the

Ok, now I unnerstand...  Genius actually...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, MOS:96B2P said:

I just noticed your edit.  This is interesting.  I also attempted to use mines as a spot unit objective but so far have not been able to make it work.  The editor will allow the mines to be assigned as a spot unit objective but the results never show in the AAR screen.  I have had units find the mines, even set some of them off.  But it never shows on the AAR screen at all.  Not as objective accomplished and not as objective failed.  Nothing at all.  I had given up that it was possible.  I think I'll open Wadi Scouts in the editor and take a look.  <Snip> 

Okay I opened CMSF1 scenario "Wadi Scouts" in the editor.  Same result as in CMBS.  The mines are assigned as unit spot objective  #2, locate minefields.  Recon enemy positions is assigned as unit spot objective #1.  On the AAR screen you are notified if you fulfilled recon enemy positions or failed and how many points.  Nothing at all on the AAR screen for locate minefields.  I suspect this spot minefield objective has never worked.  It is a cool idea but it doesn't seem to work. :(     

Edited by MOS:96B2P

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, MOS:96B2P said:

Well it's kind of a workaround but yes by using the unit spot objective.  Commit reserves (reinforcements) and lose victory points because the reinforcements you commit will mostly be spotted by the OpFor.  So there is a trade off.  Use the reinforcements to take the terrain objectives and lose some points due to them being spotted or leave them out of sight (in the setup zone probably) and try to finish the job with the forces you have in the field now.  A command decision. 

That is indeed a very clever idea fella.  B)

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×