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Black Sea II


Kinophile

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 1/27/2018 at 9:28 PM, kinophile said:

http://www.dupuyinstitute.org/blog/2016/09/01/russias-strategy-in-ukraine/

Last line: "the West should think about what a rematch might look like several years from now."

What would a Black Sea, Part Deux look like?

I think will be about baltic countries. But I guess we will not see Black Sea 2 for at least 5 or even more years from now. At least 3 modules should be out before the next game will be there. Tons of things should be improved within Black Sea N1 and from a financial point of view making a sandbox withing Black Sea 1 makes more sense. 1st Modules is easier to do, 2nd they are cheaper than new game so more people will buy it, 3rd Black Sea so far represent around 40-50% of russian, Ukrainian and American hardware, units, formations etc. So Black Sea one has a big bright future, from those things I've herd (in my topic named "Whats next? When?" it should be updated massively although we dont know if it will happen in spring or in summer). 

Here some things to think on: there are still no separatisits, no national guard of Ukraine, no Marines of US, no Rangers, no Ariborne troops, etc. 

So I mean maybe Black Sea 2 will come out one day but as I understand it will happen closer to 2025 including amount of content what might be added to this game. 

Plus there can be additional maps, scenarios, campigns, battlepacks 2.0 and so on and so on. 

So yea we will be playing in Ukraine for quite some time I guess. 

With that being said I would like to see Poland and Belorussian forcess added to original Black Sea. 

It would be call to see winter added at last so that we can make missions about Donets Airport and so on. 

I would like to see All the Baltic Countries arimes in the game. 

But again everything will depend on what developing team is going to do. So far I'm waiting for some modules to be released. 

One thing to keep in mind - last time there was any activity related to CM games was nearly year ago... I wonder what they were doing all this year... 

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Rule 1, on page 1 of the book of war, is: "Do not march on Moscow". Various people have tried it, Napoleon and Hitler, and it is no good. That is the first rule. I do not know whether your Lordships will know Rule 2 of war. It is: "Do not go fighting with your land armies in China". It is a vast country, with no clearly defined objectives.

Bernard Law Montgomery

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17 hours ago, HerrTom said:

Or CM: North German Plain.  CM: Red Denmark?  CM: Seven Days to the Rhine? :wub:

Anything late 70s/80s would be awesome. Even though I love CMBS, some more evenly matched, but still modern forces would be great. I don't need no stinkin' APS!

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1- NATO forces along with Ukraine are invading Belarus and forcing it to become a democracy. 

2 - NATO forces along with Ukraine are reuniting Moldovian territories by destroying PMR. 

3 - NATO forces are building up in Georgia in order to return those territories what were occupied by russia in 2008. 

4 - NATO feeds russia with nuclear sandwich and afterwords invading Caucasus region in order to make countries of that region independant players what will be playng their political and economical games in our (western world) favor. 

5 - stuff like that. 

Edited by Oleksandr
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More realistically-unrealistic:

NATO attacks to internationally recognized border.  The ensuing political fallout, economic damage from the conflict is sufficient to cause a general collapse in the central authority in Russia. Various national movements take this as their chance to rise, with Russia's most capable forces either destroyed, detained, or in need of serious reset before deploying.  The frozen wars in Georgia and elsewhere kick off again resulting in Russian "peacekeepers" being overwhelmed, while fallout from the cyber-exchange between NATO and Russia leaves the "loyal" elements of the Russian government struggling to operate as a modern military HQ.  As things spiral out of control, the Russian state continues to splinter into an increasingly less capable collection of "True" Russian states, ethnic enclaves and so forth.  

So basically scenarios with the one functional Armata shooting IS-2s taken from memorials.  Possible "branch" campaign where a NATO task force moves into the Kalingrad enclave after the local leadership threatens Poland as part of an Ultra-Nationalist ploy to become a Baltic North Korea.

Again it's all pretty out there, but needless to say a full on NATO invasion isn't realistic at all.  

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The main reason to be skeptical about any possibility of war with a near peer (eg: Russia) is that even winning such a war runs a high probability of deteriorating one's own best forces.  What does one do then when a third near peer state (eg China or even N. Korea) start threatening the world? 

China is already a larger threat to the west than Russia due to the failed theory that foreign business and investment would liberalize/democratize China, and now its massive grab for the entire S. China Sea through which the majority of the world's trade sails through.  Also what hasn't been widely reported is China's current attempt to seize a land corridor in Bhutan ("3 corners area") allowing is access to India and blocking India's access to the NE of its own country. 

http://www.scmp.com/news/china/diplomacy-defence/article/2124375/china-building-troop-numbers-near-doklam-after-summer  

https://www.economist.com/blogs/economist-explains/2017/08/economist-explains-6  

Analyzing the situation as above explains why it makes perfect sense for the US to be so concerned about massive rearmament asap.  But, it's doubtful that the US/West in currently in any position to do anything re foreign adventures/incursions etc.  So, can relax and be happy (for a while)... 

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Umm, yes it can be.

Eg., Post War Germany. 

Now probably the strongest democracy in Europe.

EG. Post War Japan.

US, for all its flaws, is a democracy. Riddled by patronage, corruption and constantly unbalanced by its sheer wealth, yet very much a democracy, and very much imposed by force (revolution).

The English Civil War imposed a parliamentary democracy.

And the French revolution, head chopping and all, imposed a democracy, literally by force.

The Irish War of Independence (shameless plug) forced the English to leave and replaced them with a democracy (well, a Republic, but democracy in function).

And thats just the basic ones off the top of my head.

Edited by kinophile
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8 hours ago, Oleksandr said:

1- NATO forces along with Ukraine are invading Belarus and forcing it to become a democracy. 

2 - NATO forces along with Ukraine are reuniting Moldovian territories by destroying PMR. 

3 - NATO forces are building up in Georgia in order to return those territories what were occupied by russia in 2008. 

4 - NATO feeds russia with nuclear sandwich and afterwords invading Caucasus region in order to make countries of that region independant players what will be playng their political and economical games in our (western world) favor. 

5 - stuff like that. 

Honestly, jingoism like this is disturbing to me.  I dunno. I read things like this all in one spot and I get this uneasy feeling in my gut.

22 minutes ago, kinophile said:

Umm, yes it can be.

My read was that Squarehead was cutting along the lines of "You're gonna be our democracy" by force as opposed to "Oh darn, we just annihilated a country.  Wanna vote who's boss now?" kind of thinking.  I mean, I can give counter examples in the democracies in Eastern Europe in the late 40s - they had elections after all, and the Right Party ended up winning, too!

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11 hours ago, Sgt.Squarehead said:

Does anyone else see the minor flaw in this thinking?  :rolleyes:

Hint:  It's not a ******* democracy if you impose it by force!  :mellow:

 

When has that stopped the west from trying Iraq, Libya, Syria.......democracy is just a contemporary motivational tool - like religion was in the crusades

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22 hours ago, Oleksandr said:

5 - stuff like that. 

No NATO force will ever attack / invade Russia. It was never designed for that, there was never an appetite for that. It will never happen. The Russian government can go on and on about the NATO threat but NATO forces are only a threat to Russians who are in someone else's country - specifically only other NATO members.

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