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Turkish army enters Syria

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After a week of shelling Afrin, Turkish army crosses the border backed by Syrian rebels because one rocket of unknown origin hit Turkey.

And they are saying they are fighting ISIS? In Afrin? What a lie!!

Russia has already left the area. I'm waiting to see what the US will do.

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I've built a Turkish Core File using mostly Dutch/German units.....They have the wrong small arms and a few other gripes, but with a few mods (especially for that gopping yellow/green camo) I reckon they'd pass for Turks in battle.  ;)

Edited by Sgt.Squarehead

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On 1/22/2018 at 2:17 AM, Sgt.Squarehead said:

I don't think they are claiming to be fighting ISIS, it's the PKK (YPG) they are targeting. 

Yes they are, it's even stated in the article in the first post: " Turkish forces have said they are targeting ISIS as well as Kurdish militia in Afrin."

And now, Reuters picks up the ISIS theme: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-mideast-crisis-syria-turkey/turkey-kills-at-least-260-kurdish-islamic-state-fighters-in-syria-offensive-military-idUSKBN1FC12J

" Turkey has killed at least 260 Syrian Kurdish fighters and Islamic State militants in its four-day-old offensive into the Kurdish-dominated Afrin region of northwest Syria, the Turkish military said on Tuesday. "

 

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1 minute ago, Ivan Zaitzev said:

Yes they are, it's even stated in the article in the first post: " Turkish forces have said they are targeting ISIS as well as Kurdish militia in Afrin."

Yeah but that's from CNN dude.....I meant in the real world.  ;)

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16 minutes ago, Ivan Zaitzev said:

" Turkey has killed at least 260 Syrian Kurdish fighters and Islamic State militants in its four-day-old offensive into the Kurdish-dominated Afrin region of northwest Syria, the Turkish military said on Tuesday. "

That could mean 259 Kurds and one ISIS prisoner.  :lol:

I'm not saying they're not killing some ISIS, just that ISIS are not their primary target and I don't recall ever reading that the Turks had claimed as much (elsewhere at any rate).....But making the claim that ISIS are a target must make it all just a bit more palatable for everyone (except the Kurds of course) to watch as one 'Coalition' member pulverises another. 

13 minutes ago, Ivan Zaitzev said:

So you are saying CNN and Reuters are lying and not the Turks? Right...

No.  :mellow:

Edited by Sgt.Squarehead

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Of course they are not fighting ISIS, there is no ISIS in Afrin!

When I said "Of course they are" it was regarding this part of the quote: "I don't think they are claiming to be fighting ISIS". What I mean is that they are claiming to be fighting against Kurds and ISIS but there is no ISIS in Afrin.

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Ahhhh.....We've been at cross purposes to some extent.  I hadn't seen that claim from a news source that I respect, but I don't doubt it will get some use.

Frankly I'm utterly disgusted by all of it, if I were to openly say exactly what I really feel, my time here would be at an end.  :mellow:

47 minutes ago, Ivan Zaitzev said:

Of course they are not fighting ISIS, there is no ISIS in Afrin!

Oh I suspect there are a few, hiding under rocks with all the other vermin.....But they are far from a viable target for the Turkish army, a particularly well armed pest-controller would be more proportionate.  :D

PS - Interesting to note the terminology used, suddenly these are no longer 'Valued SDF/YPG Allies', instead they have become 'Kurdish Militias', which makes it all OK, presumably.  :lol:

PPS - Apparently it's all Russia's fault: 

http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/features/russia-green-light-turkeys-afrin-offensive-180123064315810.html

Edited by Sgt.Squarehead

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A Kurdish perspective:

http://www.rudaw.net/english/middleeast/syria/230120181

A Turkish perspective:

http://aa.com.tr/en/middle-east/turkey-backed-fighters-liberate-more-villages-in-syria/1040369

The 'claim' has definitely turned up in the latter!  :rolleyes:

PS - Interestingly this article, from the same source, claiming to identify 'Why is the Afrin situation a threat to Turkey':

http://aa.com.tr/en/analysis-news/why-is-the-afrin-situation-a-threat-to-turkey/1033281

Doesn't mention Daesh or ISIS once.  :mellow:

Some truly priceless quotes in this latest one:

Quote

It also has the potential to be a stepping stone for the terror group to reach the Mediterranean with the support of the U.S.

I thought that was Syria, Hezbollah & Iran?  :wacko:

Quote

On the other hand, the U.S. military presence -- which is integrated into the terrorists east of the Euphrates River -- is absent in Afrin.

Thus, this makes the terrorist group more defenseless in the face of a possible Turkish operation into Afrin.

 

Our conquering heroes motivation finally becomes clear!  :lol:

Edited by Sgt.Squarehead

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A few days ago members of the Free Syrian Army allies of Turkey attacking Afrin cut the breasts of a dead YPJ fighter and kicked the body. Isn't this considered a war crime?

How does NATO permits this behavior on it's allies? Not to mention the more than 100 civilian casualties caused by Turkey bombing civilian villages.

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I think it is questionable how long Turkey will continue to be a part of NATO.  Their interests are not aligned.  I would guess the main reason for not dealing with him is NATO is concerned about access to the Black Sea right now.

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Turkey has the second biggest military in NATO.....But it reminds me of Saddam's military prior to western intervention, mostly junk. 

Agree that controlling access to the Black Sea is the main reason Turkey is still part of the gang, but consequently the Kurds are paying a very heavy price for being the only force in the area willing to align their interests entirely with those of the US and their close allies in the gulf (Wahhabi loons, one & all!  :rolleyes: ) & Israel.

What a fine mess we've gotten ourselves into.  :mellow:

Edited by Sgt.Squarehead

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And where's 2016?... Ah, here we go!

14591627_10209445909839207_5943935324608

Seriously, Western non-interference in the fall of Aleppo [in which the YPG played a crucial part - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern_Aleppo_offensive_(February_2016) - which may not be known or was forgotten by folks in the West, but certainly not by the FSA fighters in Afrin] and the humanitarian tragedy around it profoundly impacted the Turkish public in two ways:

- It relativized the ethics of war, so that any criticism today can be brushed off with "What about Aleppo?"

- It did the equivalent of tens of billions of Qatari / Saudi petrodollars in pushing the Islamist / Jihadist message that democracy and human rights are only a smokescreen for a war against (Sunni) Islam [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_against_Islam ].

I have seen a realistic proposition for getting out of this mess only today: "What Washington must do about Turkey and Afrin" https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/global-opinions/wp/2018/02/05/what-washington-must-do-about-turkey-and-afrin/?utm_term=.b2d435ee9135

In short, pressure the PKK to declare a cease-fire inside Turkey, quid pro quo for limiting the operation in Afrin. It would still give Erdogan his victory for reelection, but lifting the state of emergency would at least restore constitutional order, no matter how flawed the constitution. The part that the proposition does not account for is whether the PKK would be willing to go along with this. After all, they have everything to gain from a state of affairs where the only outlet for Kurdish dissent is through their armed ranks.

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On 2018-02-05 at 5:40 PM, Machor said:

In short, pressure the PKK to declare a cease-fire inside Turkey, quid pro quo for limiting the operation in Afrin. It would still give Erdogan his victory for reelection, but lifting the state of emergency would at least restore constitutional order, no matter how flawed the constitution. The part that the proposition does not account for is whether the PKK would be willing to go along with this. After all, they have everything to gain from a state of affairs where the only outlet for Kurdish dissent is through their armed ranks.

Well on the surface that seems like a workable plan. But you are presuming that Erdogan's recent actions against his own Kurdish population was in response to provocation and the abandonment of the peace deal that was in place by the local Kurdish population. While I am sure some will show some "proof" that it was but to me it is far from clear that was the way it went down. Why does it matter? Because why would anyone agree to a peace deal with some one that broke nearly the same deal just a few years ago and why would a dictator that needs internal and external threats to justify his power and or authoritarian actions give up said excuse when things are working well for his dictatorship.

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On ‎05‎/‎02‎/‎2018 at 10:40 PM, Machor said:

- It relativized the ethics of war, so that any criticism today can be brushed off with "What about Aleppo?"

What about Fallujah?

What about Ramadi?

What about Mosul?

What about Raqqah?

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Ah, gotcha, apologies for the misunderstanding.....TBH I was tempted to add Stalingrad, Warsaw & Berlin to the list.

Fighting in cities has always been catastrophic and very little has changed despite the advent of precision weaponry, we've seen exactly how much use that actually is in a densely packed urban environment all too frequently in recent years.  :(

Edited by Sgt.Squarehead

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