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slysniper

cmbs - Meijel Mayham - A job well done

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I Know, I know

How in the world could I have the game this long and I just finally sat down and played this scenario vs the AI

Well in my world, that is just how it is, I cannot sit around and play these games like it is a job or truthfully would I want to, I would get bored of them if I did that.

Anyway, over the Holidays I have sat down and played a half dozen or so Scenarios I had not done yet and this is my latest one.

 

I just want to compliment the work that went into this one. Excellent design and effort and it shows.

 

Map - excellent

situation - excellent

units selected - excellent

programming the AI - excellent

Scoring the scenario- excellent

So in other words, A perfect score if I was posting it somewhere.

 

I felt this battle gave me a excellent feel for some of the challenges faced by commanders that I have read many times from different stories from this war.

I played as the German's and found myself being very cautious as to keeping my armor on the roads because  of ground conditions.

Scouting the flanks had just enough importance to make it a need but not a want to have to do.

pushing the attack was not a easy task because of the restrictions and the Ai was programmed well to throw a few surprises into the battle.

Time of battle and scoring was well done, I won the battle, but for the heck of it I went back in and stopped the battle just short of the last objective I captured and found I would have lost with that result. So it was a close result, which I love. (Normally at my skill level. Playing the AI is not a challenge ) So love it when its not a cake walk.

 

I think my favorite moment happened when I had a panther sent to support my flank scouting efforts and it was attacked by some forces along the main objective.

As the panther started to engage a Sherman at very long range and to not have success.  I had that moment of , oh my. I might be in trouble, is that a Jumbo or something. Sure enough later on. I found that to be true. I lost that panther in the duel and when I did finally clear the enemy out and had clear information on each unit. That jumbo had about 10 hits on it and had fought a valiant battle. (just a great moment to get that feel of what a jumbo might have felt like as to a unwanted challenge having to face against on the battlefield.

 

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20 hours ago, Bud Backer said:

I played this with @IanL some time ago. What a well designed scenario indeed. We both struggled greatly, and for different reasons. Which to me is the hallmark of a brilliant design. 

Yes, I remember now - fun. Frustrating at times (no spoilers but nothing seemed to go right or smoothly). It is one of those hard ones where you appreciate the challenge afterwards - especially after you hear how hard your opponent found it too.

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@Ts4EVER Good spot on the Luchs and 9 Pz. (only they & 4 Pz. had the full complement in their recon battalion).....Love the Luchs, so you've sorted my entertainment for later on, cheers all!

PS - Love the honesty of your reactions in that video!  :lol:

Edited by Sgt.Squarehead

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Thank you Slysniper. Always nice to hear player comments.

Meijel is one of those more obscure battles in Holland after the failure of Market Garden. Finding detailed info was pretty hard, but eventually I found enough. Only on the German OOB info was scarce.

But I could not resist making it. It is my own backyard :). I went to visit the site too, but much has changed.

The map is VERY much like it was in 1944, based on detailed period maps and photos. It was fun to make. It is somewhat oversized. This is intentional to give players a good feel of what the area looked like. There is also a master map which is larger. More battles where fought here. Maybe someone feels the urge to make one or two.

 

Edited by PanzerMike

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PanzerMike,

  I'll have to jump in here and second everything already said.  This was quite a battle, one I enjoyed the challenge of greatly. 

  I think the map itself was one of the big stars.  I loved the fact that you had options for maneuver.  The map was so well done though.  It greatly enhanced the immersion factor and there were some very long lines of sight that came in handy. 

  As the Axis player, I had to take some flat-out calculated risks with the terrain at times, and they paid off with dividends.  But I'll come back to the map and the freedom to take advantage of the maneuver options, which was so neat.  Scouting was also important, but I'm afraid my little Luchs suffered a bit with my aggressive scouting efforts.  They also gave me some really excellent intel as well, so the map allowed their proper historical usage. 

  Slysniper is spot on with all his scoring.  I concur - a perfect score all the way around.

Heinrich505

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I was wondering what tactics or strategy other players used for this scenario.  Talking WEGO primarily.

 

****************** POSSIBLE SPOILERS ******************

 

One is forced to recon with the Pz II's on either side of the road since the Germans start with unconfirmed sightings on both flanks.  However, as noted in the briefing the Pz II's are like a pop gun mounted on an eggshell.  The Pz II's can't hurt the US recon vehicles which can instead easily damage or kill em.  In WEGO by the time the Pz II's have eyes on the enemy, they are already in trouble and at least one on each flank is either damaged or KO'd.

So... One sits and waits for the PzV's.  As soon as they turn up, one ends up sending a couple Panthers to each flank.  The Panthers can take out the Stuarts and AC's easily but at they try to take the victory locations to the right of the road, they become flanked by tank killers situated at the far end of the map via long LOS channels.  In RT one can do a lot to instantly respond, but in WEGO...

So, how did you do it?

 

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Erwin,

I played this in WEGO versus the AI at Elite. 

---------------------------Spoilers, of a sort--------------------------------------------------------------------------

I loaded up squads on the panthers, and then advanced slowly, stopping to toss some guys out front and recon a bit before remounting them to move forward.  They (infantry) started spotting the tank killers (after I'd lost some Luchs, unfortunately), and then it was time for the panthers to try and get line of sight on the enemy tank killers.  I had the panthers working in pairs at the very least.  And yes, I did rush the Luchs from hiding spot to hiding spot, almost as if it was a single soldier.  Not very glamorous but I did finally get spots on the enemy tanks and started to take them out.  Once they were either destroyed or backed off, I then repeated the tactic, eventually working my way well up the left flank and way up the right flank.  Once my flanking maneuvers out-flanked the enemy positions in the center, they were destroyed or they retreated as well, which then freed up my center push. 

It wasn't very fast, but it worked.  That damn Jumbo - I hit that thing so many times I couldn't count the hits anymore, but I only killed it much later when I was able to flank it.  Some of those long range hits from my panthers KO'd the main gun, but of course I didn't know that until I was flanking it and it wasn't taking shots that it should have been taking.

I'll add that I took some chances with the wide tracks on the panthers to move across some of that incredibly bog-friendly terrain.  The panthers performed admirably, bogging at times but always freeing themselves up to keep moving forward. 

Just my two cents.  I got a total victory with the AI surrendering.  I did not get to the furthest victory point.  And it was both a challenge and lots of fun.

Heinrich505

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13 hours ago, Heinrich505 said:

I loaded up squads on the panthers, and then advanced slowly, stopping to toss some guys out front and recon a bit before remounting them to move forward.  They (infantry) started spotting the tank killers (after I'd lost some Luchs, unfortunately), and then it was time for the panthers to try and get line of sight on the enemy tank killers.  I had the panthers working in pairs at the very least.  And yes, I did rush the Luchs from hiding spot to hiding spot,

Nice tactics. +1

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"...eventually working my way well up the left flank and way up the right flank."

I lost a Luchs to mines on the left flank so assumed that was it (the briefing warned about mines) and after killing two US AC's brought the Panthers and surviving damaged Luchs on the left flank back to the road with no further attempts to the left.

But, the right flank encountered 5 (I think) Stuarts and an HE thrower plus infantry that KO'd one and damaged a 2nd right flank Luchs.  The Panthers coped with that but suddenly the tank killers got long range LOS to the left side of the panthers as they tried to make headway to the small right flank VL's and KO'd two.  (The Panthers never saw a thing.) 

After that I tried to make way on the road.  But again it seemed like the US tanks got first sight and first shot while the PzV's could not see anything.  Operated them in pairs as SOP.  However, in a WEGO turn, a Panther would be hit 3 or 4 times and then a finally a fatal shot - without seeing the enemy tanks at all.  :(   Ended up losing 5 panthers plus a JgPz IV plus some halftracks before getting to the first road village.  CF'd and was stunned at how many well placed tank killers were out there.

It's nearly always a good idea to go for the flanks.  But, since we were warned about mines, not sure how players had the balls to ignore mines (and apparently not get blown up either!).

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Erwin,

  If I recall correctly, I also pushed some of the halftracks up the left side, after I had a Luchs meet with mine misfortune.  Then I followed the halftracks with panthers, always moving very slowly and right in the halftracks path.  If the halftrack met with grief, I would then try to steer away from the area, but still pushed onward.  I was kind of shocked after the battle at the number of mines that I missed, but I must have been getting lucky rolls or the driver of one of my panthers had eyes like a freaking hawk.  I did lose his partner to mines  though. 

  The halftrack drivers were not very happy with me though.  c3k would be proud of my use of them.  :rolleyes:

Heinrich505

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My thought was since there were mines on the left that the right flank move would be better.  Your pushing thru the left flank was the better move, (but maybe very lucky?).  If I played this again however, it still seems that the logical route is via the right flank due to the mines on the left.  One would normally predict many more vehicles lost to mines than you suffered.  

However, the 5 Stuarts situated on the right were tough to winkle out, plus as mentioned there were long range openings for US tank destroyers to spot and shoot accurately all the way to the roads leading to the VL's.

Pushing along the main road would have been ok had there been more time to move carefully.  But, given the pace one had to maintain, it was a suicide road as it was covered by about 6+ US armor. 

 

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Erwin,

  Yes, the main road route was brutal.  I only managed to break through there once I flanked from the right side road.  And, that was delayed because of the long range tank destroyers that had to be dealt with.  My initial intent was to push heavy up the center and around the right.  Once the center bogged down, I then pushed hard on the right but also probed around the left, which turned out well for me.

  I agree with you, I had plenty of reservations about the left flank road, but after destroying the ACs that were guarding it, I reasoned that the Amis probably hadn't driven through their own minefields to get their ACs into those positions, or the mines weren't all that dense, so I pushed ahead anyway.  Lucky, perhaps...fortune favors...but I can say that the one panther that made it through really hurt the US tanks that were lobbing shells at the panthers on the other side of the map. 

Heinrich505

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My tactics became a attack up the middle.

After losing the one panther on the right flank to enemy armor fire and a Jag IV to immobilization. And on the left having a event with a  immobilized panther to a mine field. I felt that the flanks had no threats to my advance. So I would have to rely on the strength of my armor and force my way up the middle on the thin single route.

That was what gave it the feel that helped make it a great battle for me. Every time I had to pull a unit off the road and I knowing that bogging and immobilization was a real threat was part of the fun. I hated but loved it at the same time.

If a tank was killed on the road, it was a real bummer, knowing every unit behind it would have to risk the mud.

Some points along the route required I send my armor off the road to gain the positions and firepower I needed to force my frontal attack along.

Needless to say, there was nothing pretty about my win or was I going to get easy kills by out positioning the defense. So it just added to the difficulty of the situation.

My infantry had to use the ditches and waterways as their routes to advance and get cover. So the whole thing just became a battle that had a real feel of realistic challenges and working through those challenges for me.

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I forgot about the frequent bogging and several immobilizations.  The good thing I learned too late was that the Panthers actually move pretty well offroad as do the halftracks.  Everything else could get bogged and/or immobilized even on the road at times.  I never found a good use for the infantry.  They probably should be offloaded early before a "sniper" tank killer blows up their tank transport.  The question then is whether to send the inf to the flanks or rush them up the road to spot the ambushing enemy tanks.

My attack was called off with 30 minutes left on the clock after losing a Luchs to mines on the left flank and another Luchs plus 2(!) Panthers on the right (plus another two Luchs damaged) + the road attack bogged down in front of the first objective when three more Panthers plus a JgPzIV plus several halftracks were killed or immobilized.  The inf had only just reached the first set of (deserted by now) enemy foxholes.  The enemy arty was also nasty - killing another 75mm halftrack and several inf.

Glad to hear that you succeeded in WEGO.  This seemed like best played in RT so one could immediately react when an enemy starting pinking shells off one's armor.  Too many times, I helplessly watched as a Panther would survive 3 hits only to be killed by the 4th in a WEGO minute.

 

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I still prefer Wego, first it is how I play h2h, so It keeps me in practice for that.

yes, if you make a bad decision early in the minute it can be hard to watch. But I still consider that more realistic than RT and having such perfect knowledge of what I need to do and being able to get out of it immediately. So I think of it as a little help to the AI side to play in Wego.

Then I have found RT takes me longer than Wego to play when I am playing the game against the AI - IN Wego, I can fast forward through the turns if no action is going on.

RT can be a real bore if there is no action for about 10 minutes, just not the way to want to spend my time. Waiting for something to happen, reminds me of real life, except we could wait for days for something to happen, not an aspect I want to recall in any manor.

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Sure is.

And don't get me wrong, nothing wrong with RT, I like it on small quick battles where it can help create a fog of war and I can manage not to stop play and just try to manage my units without allowing myself to stop the clock.

In Wego, if I think I am going to move my unit into possible trouble. I try to time it with pause or other methods so that my unit only moves into the area with 20-30 seconds generally. Thus preventing me from having a minute of possible issues before addressing them. But time enough to normally spot what I need to.

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Hi Sly!

A great scenareio indeed! :)

Played it as Germans against a dude from "The Blitz" and he whacked the hell out of me. After 2/3 of the time I was so desperate about my grave losses that I thought "To hell with it, I just storm the first objective and call a CF afterwards!" I knew, I would loose with only one objective under control. But I just couldn't take it to have lost so many dudes without even reaching the first village. When I did, all of a sudden my opponent called a surrender - I won.

He couldn't take it anymore to see his units getting shredded...

Intense. :wub:

Edited by DasMorbo

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I can only agree with all the above posts that it was a great scenario and I played it as Axis in a PBEM. An additional plus is the nice autumn setting.

*****************SPOILERS****************************************

A nice touch in the design is the location of infantry in the open in foxholes, but they are almost all at a slightly lower level than the otherwise flat map, which makes it impossible to just area fire "the hell out of them" once spotted.

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