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Combat Mission: Pacific Storm

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...and expending to Middle East... most of materials and uniforms were Soviet and US but also British !...

Question terrain I m sure that somebody could take some help by CMSF1 or 2.

Yes I think this open a lot of possibilities to added CMRT...

Hope only to see one day Middle.East !!!...

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17 minutes ago, MOS:96B2P said:

YES!!!!!!! This!!!!!!!!!  Patton attacks east 1946, Fulda Gap 1950. With the help of moders you could get lots of the beginning of the cold war conflicts including Korea.    

+1

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50 minutes ago, MOS:96B2P said:

YES!!!!!!! This!!!!!!!!!  Patton attacks east 1946, Fulda Gap 1950. With the help of moders you could get lots of the beginning of the cold war conflicts including Korea.    

I doubt that the allies would start a conflict with the russians in 1946 but perhaps the ruskies would be a bit more agressive ;)...If the russians did try to expand the communist ideas further west i'm sure they would have gotten the same treatment as the japanese...A nuke or two ! End of conflict...

But if BFC decided to make this possible...I would be more then happy to 'forgett' about the american nukes...Let the conflict begin ! :)

An east-west war in 1946 would be very cool indeed.

And Fulda gap...any timeframe....yes,yes,yes...bring it on...

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1 hour ago, Vanir Ausf B said:
2 hours ago, sburke said:

Add the Russian forces from CMRT to CMFB.  That would allow players to do some really fun stuff. Yes totally fiction even, but I think it would be a big seller.  

Yes, please!

Hummm. Perhaps we should pitch an idea to create a CM game that combines the late ware CMFB, and CMRT forces into a new game family. Once the end of the war module of CMRT and Commonwealth module for CMFB are done all the units will be there with the appropriate TO&E.

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15 minutes ago, IanL said:

Hummm. Perhaps we should pitch an idea to create a CM game that combines the late ware CMFB, and CMRT forces into a new game family. Once the end of the war module of CMRT and Commonwealth module for CMFB are done all the units will be there with the appropriate TO&E.

It could be done as part of the Fantasy Vehicle Pack Steve alluded to in the other thread. You don't really need a new game family. With all the models, artwork and TO&E already done it could be patched into RT and/or FB. Then it just comes down to how ambitious BFC wants to be with it and the corresponding price point. If there is no new content aside from the "fantasy" units then it's essentially a vehicle pack. Or they could go balls to the wall with new scenarios, QB maps and campaigns and price it as a module. 

Edited by Vanir Ausf B

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23 minutes ago, Vanir Ausf B said:

 Or they could go balls to the wall with new scenarios, QB maps and campaigns and price it as a module. 

I think this would be a very clever way forward. Especially if they can squeeze in VE-day and commonwealth forces into one module. Having a russo/allied continuation war as a second module for CMFB would sell like hotcake ! :)

 

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1 hour ago, Vanir Ausf B said:

patched into RT and/or FB

 

51 minutes ago, RepsolCBR said:

Having a russo/allied continuation war as a second module for CMFB would sell like hotcake !

Have an expansion each for RT and FB so it covers each way the direction it could have gone - & sell double the hotcakes!

Or if BFC is generous and clever if it was installed in one game and it could could somehow detect the game libraries from other installed games to draw upon when making the battlefields and forces...

Edited by Wicky

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2 hours ago, Vanir Ausf B said:

It could be done as part of the Fantasy Vehicle Pack Steve alluded to in the other thread. You don't really need a new game family. With all the models, artwork and TO&E already done it could be patched into RT and/or FB. <Snip>  

+1.  I would be excited about and buy any product BFC produces that has Soviet TOE and Allied TOE in the same game.  I think I read somewhere that when CMFB is completed it will contain the Commonwealth forces.  So the Final Blitzkrieg + Red Thunder TOE would allow for many post WWII real world and hypothetical conflicts.  The above, as outlined by Vanir, may be the easiest way (so most likely?) for BFC to make this happen.   This would be very cool.        

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9 hours ago, Wicky said:

Or if BFC is generous and clever if it was installed in one game and it could could somehow detect the game libraries from other installed games to draw upon when making the battlefields and forces...

+1

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On 1/10/2018 at 8:21 AM, LukeFF said:

Eh, but when it comes down to it, you're just fighting against British troops playing pretend Japanese forces with that mod. No thanks. 

Ok, you have a right to your view but I don't get the disdain.

As a CM playtester, do you have some under the hood info we don't about how nationalities are treated in game which would make 'real' Japanese infantry behave totally differently from modded 1944 British infantry? I'm pretty sure Steve has said repeatedly that they don't "übermensch" anyone, or the reverse. At squad level, the weapon sets are broadly comparable provided you avoid the Sten-intensive sections and assume the Japanese type 99 service rifle. Nambu and Bren have little to differentiate them. Light mortars, same. You run into more trouble with ordnance weapons, sure, but there are workarounds.

And it's not like there are piles of scenarios out there featuring British troops with Fanatic morale. But whatever... 

Edited by LongLeftFlank

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18 hours ago, sburke said:

(about a potential CM: Vietnam)

I used to be a big advocate for this. What finally changed my mind was playing around with various scenarios to try it using different existing games.  The biggest issue is how the game engine handles different terrain and vegetation. 

Examples

you are in a field of elephant grass. You can’t area fire towards a known enemy location because you can’t see the base tile.  Pretty similar to issues right now with grain fields  

forget actual jungle, it becomes tedious. 

Fortifications aren’t up to par for what we need

calling in artillery would have to mean putting in a bunch of TRPs as you can’t use grid coordinates. 

I think your arguments are good, but what if they changed and updated the engine a bit as part of the new game? Just like CMRT came with flame throwers and tank riders.

I could imagine CM Vietnam coming with improved fortifications and a system to let the US player target by grid coordinates.

Whether or not the game would be fun to play is another question. I think it would depend a lot on scenario design.

"Cleanse this jungle area of Viet Cong" would probably not be a fun battle. It's not much fun to clear a dense monobloc forest of SS troops in CMBN either, if you ask me. 

But "Land in dropzone Alpha and proceed to destroy arms cache in village, then evacuate wounded and dust off" might be.

Edited by Bulletpoint

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The main realism hassle for me in Makin was the incredible ease with which entrenchments and bunkers are spotted and brought under fire, especially by BU tanks, even when well camouflaged in deep jungle and not themselves firing. It's something that really has to get fixed before you can do any kind of positional warfare, regardless of theatre. That same Deathstar effect also brought my Dien Bien Phu experiment to a dead stop.

Edited by LongLeftFlank

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I am not a big fan of WW2 Pacific. I would rather BF concentrate on finishing their current titles first then do more on the Russian Front. There is a case for early war ETO including Poland, France, Western Deser. Perhaps a title like Combat Mission Blitzkrieg, wrapping up the 1939 - 42 WTO into one family

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5 hours ago, LongLeftFlank said:

Ok, you have a right to your view but I don't get the disdain.

It seemed a pretty curt response to me too, given the massive amount of work that must have gone into creating it.  :mellow:

Could you elaborate on your comments re:  'The Death Star Effect', I was thinking about making an experimental map so any pointers in advance would be very welcome, I'm guessing this was an issue with LOS through dense trees? 

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On 1/11/2018 at 9:28 PM, RepsolCBR said:

I doubt that the allies would start a conflict with the russians in 1946 but perhaps the ruskies would be a bit more agressive ;)...If the russians did try to expand the communist ideas further west i'm sure they would have gotten the same treatment as the japanese...A nuke or two ! End of conflict...

I think you're contradicting yourself a bit here - why would the Russians attack when they knew the Allies had nuclear weapons?

It's far more likely that the Allies would decide to push back the Reds a bit now that they had the atomic advantage.

In real life, of course they didn't do that, but in terms of game theory it would make some sense to attack while you have the ultimate weapon and your opponent hasn't got it - yet.

Edited by Bulletpoint

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30 minutes ago, Bulletpoint said:

I think you're contradicting yourself a bit here - why would the Russians attack when they knew the Allies had nuclear weapons?

It's far more likely that the Allies would decide to push back the Reds a bit now that they had the atomic advantage.

In real life, of course they didn't do that, but in terms of game theory it would make some sense to attack while you have the ultimate weapon and your opponent hasn't got it - yet.

Heck who cares who attacks who, the idea was for BF to just introduce the material, no extra effort so their costs and effort are kept to a minimum. You could just assume it was a case of total miscalculation and combat getting out of control.  The US didn’t have the bomb ready to deploy in the pacific till August and even then very few.  So the allies hit Germany in 1945, Russia is suspicious, Patton goes bonkers, the 82nd drops into Berlin there are no nukes for 3 months at least....... sounds like it works for me! :D

Now that is dreaming 

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I see your Point...

My thinking was that the allies where far more war-tired at the end of the war compared to the russians...Especially when it comes to the political and military leadership the western nations where more concerned about the high casualties taken during the war. The russian leaders did not seem to care all that much. I guess that the civilian population of both countries where equally tired of the war and wanted no more of it...

The allied leaders would have a hard time getting support for an additional war...the russian leaders didn't really care i guess...

Even back then i think that the americans looked at the nukes as a last resort defensive weapon and not really as a war-winner in an offensive conflict. I think they would have used it as a desperate defensive weapon in the case of an overwhelmming russian attack...but not as an offensiv weapon.

But yes...looking at it from the russian side...attacking an enemy with this kind of weapon would not be the brightest idea :)

 

 

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2 minutes ago, sburke said:

 sounds like it works for me! :D

Yepp...let's forgett about the nukes for a while...

That would work for me to...:) I would really like to se this happen. It would be a very cool addition !

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Keep in mind that after dropping the bomb on Nagasaki the United States only made 2 more nuclear bombs in 1945, one in August and another in December.

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8 hours ago, sburke said:

Heck who cares who attacks who, the idea was for BF to just introduce the material, no extra effort so their costs and effort are kept to a minimum. You could just assume it was a case of total miscalculation and combat getting out of control.  The US didn’t have the bomb ready to deploy in the pacific till August and even then very few.  So the allies hit Germany in 1945, Russia is suspicious, Patton goes bonkers, the 82nd drops into Berlin there are no nukes for 3 months at least....... sounds like it works for me! :D

Now that is dreaming 

homer-excited.png

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12 hours ago, Sgt.Squarehead said:

It seemed a pretty curt response to me too, given the massive amount of work that must have gone into creating it.  :mellow:

Ok, longer reply: I appreciate the work that goes into creating a mod like that, but without proper 3D models for Japanese troops, weapons, Marine Corp forces, and other items like TOE and Japanese voice acting, it just doesn't do it for me. Same goes for under-the-hood weapon modeling - ballistics, ammo loads, total absence of bayonets, etc. In sum, there would be too much suspension of disbelief for me to enjoy it.But hey, if you like it, have at it. I was just voicing why the mod doesn't do anything for me. 

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9 hours ago, Vanir Ausf B said:

Keep in mind that after dropping the bomb on Nagasaki the United States only made 2 more nuclear bombs in 1945, one in August and another in December.

Well, it only took two nuclear bombs to force the fanatical Japanese to surrender. Also, probably the Russians didn't know how many more bombs the US might have in stock at that time. But they must have known that the US production was ramping up fast. It would be a full four years before the Soviets could even conduct their own first nuclear test.

So, if the Russians wanted to take Europe, they would need to do so extremely quickly, against an Allied military machine in full swing, and under the shadow of the US (and British) strategic bombers.

My point is that it would not be rational for the Reds to attack in that situation.

But yeah, this is not an argument against Combat Mission 1946. I think it could be good. I just thought the historical side is interesting, and I think the assumption that the Russians would be the aggressors is unlikely in that moment in time. Not defending Russia, nor Communism.

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14 hours ago, Sgt.Squarehead said:

It seemed a pretty curt response to me too, given the massive amount of work that must have gone into creating it.  :mellow:

Could you elaborate on your comments re:  'The Death Star Effect', I was thinking about making an experimental map so any pointers in advance would be very welcome, I'm guessing this was an issue with LOS through dense trees? 

Appreciate the clarification Luke, trust your feelings 😉

Sarge, the death star effect is my name for the unfortunate combo of game mechanics that allows direct fire weapons even of light caliber to rapidly spot, zero and shoot 'fortified' defenders all dead in their holes and even bunkers at range, again and again, consistently, even when they are hidden or cowering.

RL firepower (at least in pre-PGM days) simply doesn't have that kind of prompt total lethality against dug-in defenders or else WWI would have taken a very different course. The 4.0 "run away! run away!" bailout bug compounds the problem.

 

Edited by LongLeftFlank

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16 hours ago, Bulletpoint said:

Not defending Russia, nor Communism.

Why not?  They defended us.  ;)

Not convinced that a B-29 mission into the teeth of the Red Airforce would be much fun, the US would have to degrade their combat airpower as they did with Japan before they could risk a nuclear strike.  Frankly it would be the mission from hell IMHO.

16 hours ago, LongLeftFlank said:

Sarge, the death star effect is my name for the unfortunate combo of game mechanics that allows direct fire weapons even of light caliber to rapidly spot, zero and shoot 'fortified' defenders all dead in their holes and even bunkers at range, again and again, consistently, even when they are hidden or cowering.

Cheers fella.....I'll have a mess in the editor anyway, but your comments are noted.

Edited by Sgt.Squarehead

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