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      Special Upgrade 4 Tech Tips   12/27/2016

      Hi all! Now that Upgrade 4 is out and about in large quantities we have now discovered a few SNAFUs that happen out in the scary, real world that is home computing.  Fortunately the rate of problems is extremely small and so far most are easily worked around.  We've identified a few issues that have similar causes which we have clear instructions for work arounds here they are: 1.  CMRT Windows customers need to re-license their original key.  This is a result of improvements to the licensing system which CMBN, CMBS, and CMFB are already using.  To do this launch CMRT with the Upgrade and the first time enter your Engine 4 key.  Exit and then use the "Activate New Products" shortcut in your CMRT folder, then enter your Engine 3 license key.  That should do the trick. 2.  CMRT and CMBN MacOS customers have a similar situation as #2, however the "Activate New Products" is inside the Documents folder in their respective CM folders.  For CMBN you have to go through the process described above for each of your license keys.  There is no special order to follow. 3.  For CMBS and CMFB customers, you need to use the Activate New Products shortcut and enter your Upgrade 4 key.  If you launch the game and see a screen that says "LICENSE FAILURE: Base Game 4.0 is required." that is an indication you haven't yet gone through that procedure.  Provided you had a properly functioning copy before installing the Upgrade, that should be all you need to do.  If in the future you have to install from scratch on a new system you'll need to do the same procedure for both your original license key and your Upgrade 4.0 key. 4.  There's always a weird one and here it is.  A few Windows users are not getting "Activate New Products" shortcuts created during installation.  Apparently anti-virus software is preventing the installer from doing its job.  This might not be a problem right now, but it will prove to be an issue at some point in the future.  The solution is to create your own shortcut using the following steps: Disable your anti-virus software before you do anything. Go to your Desktop, right click on the Desktop itself, select NEW->SHORTCUT, use BROWSE to locate the CM EXE that you are trying to fix. The location is then written out. After it type in a single space and then paste this:

      -showui

      Click NEXT and give your new Shortcut a name (doesn't matter what). Confirm that and you're done. Double click on the new Shortcut and you should be prompted to license whatever it is you need to license. At this time we have not identified any issues that have not been worked around.  Let's hope it stays that way Steve
    • Battlefront.com

      Forum Reorganization   10/12/2017

      We've reorganized our Combat Mission Forums to reflect the fact that most of you are now running Engine 4 and that means you're all using the same basic code.  Because of that, there's no good reason to have the discussion about Combat Mission spread out over 5 separate sets of Forums.  There is now one General Discussion area with Tech Support and Scenario/Mod Tips sub forums.  The Family specific Tech Support Forums have been moved to a new CM2 Archives area and frozen in place. You might also notice we dropped the "x" from distinguishing between the first generation of CM games and the second.  The "x" was reluctantly adopted back in 2005 or so because at the time we had the original three CM games on European store shelves entitled CM1, CM2, and CM3 (CMBO, CMBB, and CMAK).  We didn't want to cause confusion so we added the "x".  Time has moved on and we have to, so the "x" is now gone from our public vocabulary as it has been from our private vocabulary for quite a while already.  Side note, Charles *NEVER* used the "x" so now we're all speaking the same language as him.  Which is important since he is the one programming them

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Looking at a quick battle in CMFI, and while comparing tank battalions I see that the Churchill III and IV are valued at about 280 points each and the Sherman III & V's are only 190 points. (both set to equal parameters, Veteran etc...). Just wondering, do you feel two Churchill's are worth 3 Sherman's in an AT role? 

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OK, I did a test.

I setup 15 MkIV's against 5 Sherman 1"s, 5 Sherman V's and 5 Churchill IV's on a flat open large map.

The armor of the Churchill's were able to withstand the MkIV's 75's causing several ricochets of the hull. Not so much the turret. Also, instead of being knocked out, the crew after receiving several casualties abandoned the Churchill's. The Sherman's were knocked out before the crew could abandon. 

The Churchill's 57mm seemed to be equal to the Sherman's 75.

In the end there was a lone Churchill left. It may have been because he was out of LOS a lot. (He kept reversing out of trouble)

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I suspect Churchills should have much better survivability over shermans.  And the 57mm is high velocity.  I notice Churchills w 75mm guns are very poor at anti-tank.  The sherman is much faster at least.  And I suspect way cheaper to build & maintain.  Not that this helps the poor crews much.

 

Thanks for doing this, interesting stuff.

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What @danfrodo said: The kicker, for an anti tank role, is the Churchill's higher survivability. The 57mm gun is pretty good against enemy tanks and the Churchill tank can take more of a beating than the Sherman can.

The test you ran has a strong tendency to show strong outcomes because one event can have a cascading effect: once one side starts loosing the losses get worse. They are fun and enjoy running them - if you really want more informative stats create separate lines and fight one on one. When I make testing lanes I usually use terrain (hills 5m - 7m high) to separate the lanes and not just walls.

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Churchills seem very poor tanks in my experience, but I've only played them in campaigns where of course they are up against Panthers and 75mm PaKs. Churchills seem slow, spot poorly, and quite fragile. certainly I haven't seen them survive anything a Sherman couldn't have survived. The only Churchill worth the name "heavy tank" seems to be the mark VII.

In short, I agree. I don't see why they should be more expensive than Shermans.

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Oh man no. I had an AAR way back where a Churchill tank survived 20 plus hits from a stug. The damn things will not die. No Sherman tank could do that.

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Churchills were famous for getting where other tanks couldn't. All those little bogies did help. MMP, etc. 

As well, if you're comparing Churchills to Shermans and how they survive Jagdtiger 128mm hits, well, they're both so over-matched it doesn't matter. The Panther's 75L70 gun cuts through them both like a hot knife through butter, especially at the ranges in game (and in combat). Where the Churchill beats the Sherman is survivability against other than 75L70. Against 75L48 and L43, it does better. 50mm? Far better.

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Posted (edited)
44 minutes ago, IanL said:

Oh man no. I had an AAR way back where a Churchill tank survived 20 plus hits from a stug. The damn things will not die. No Sherman tank could do that.

Which kind of StuG (can't remember if they all use the same gun in CMBN), and at what range? And what kind of Churchill? The VII is strong.

Edited by Bulletpoint

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OK found it. Around page 6 I start talking about the trouble I am having dealing with Churchill tanks:

This video shows the uber Churchill shrugging off 22 hits (or at leas some of the 22):

 

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4 hours ago, Bulletpoint said:

Which kind of StuG (can't remember if they all use the same gun in CMBN), and at what range? And what kind of Churchill? The VII is strong.

Even the earlier marks can resist 75mm L48 on their front hulls at most ranges and on their front turrets and sides at longer ranges. In one battle I had 3 rounds bounce off the side of a Churchill MkIV's turret. After the mission I discovered the rounds came from a StuGIII (75mm L48) fired at around 900 metres. While this is probably longer than typical tank engagement ranges in CMBN I'm positive that a Sherman would have been toast in that situation. 

Also, bare in mind that the 6lber armed Churchills in Normandy can penetrate Tigers frontally with APDS rounds at ranges of over 1000 yards.

 

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54 minutes ago, black_prince said:

Even the earlier marks can resist 75mm L48 on their front hulls at most ranges and on their front turrets and sides at longer ranges. In one battle I had 3 rounds bounce off the side of a Churchill MkIV's turret. After the mission I discovered the rounds came from a StuGIII (75mm L48) fired at around 900 metres. While this is probably longer than typical tank engagement ranges in CMBN I'm positive that a Sherman would have been toast in that situation. 

Also, bare in mind that the 6lber armed Churchills in Normandy can penetrate Tigers frontally with APDS rounds at ranges of over 1000 yards.

 

I guess I have just never seen the churchills in good matchups then. My experience with them is only from playing the Scottish Corridor campaign (twice). It pits the Churchills against Panthers and Tigers.

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1 hour ago, Thewood1 said:

Interesting video.  But what the heck is going on with the trees constantly changing color?

Wow, I never really paid much attention to that. I have no idea, other than it was my old computer with my old graphics card. I.e. just a bit better than crappy. :)

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