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Bulletpoint

I've been tsting jeep windshields and I think there is a problem

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Some time ago, I posted a video showing a jeep surviving a lot of bullets straight through the windshield. Testing was done, and it was found jeeps were not invulnerable to small arms fire.

However, I decided to do some more testing, and I think there is a problem with jeeps and their windshields.

The result of my test is that jeep windshields are not invulnerable against small arms fire, but that the glass offers a very high degree of protection. I belive it should offer no protection at all. As far as I know, WW2 jeep windshields were just regular glass.

 

Details of test:

 

8 lanes, 1 jeep in each, VS 1 German team with 1 LMG (and sometimes a marksman with a scoped rifle).

Distance: apprx. 150m.

3 jeeps have windshield up, 5 have it down. This seems to be random on purchase.

 

Results:

The jeeps with windshield up often survive several minutes worth of fire. Most of the bullets hitting the windshield cause no damage. Sometimes, the driver will get killed from frontal fire, but this is quite rare. Mostly what happens is tat the moment the jeep reverses to flee, it turns a bit and the driver very quickly gets killed from fire from the unprotected side or rear. In other cases, the driver bails out and very quickly gets hit. Often before he hits the ground.

The drivers of the jeeps with the windshield down often get killed by the first or second German MG burst.

 

It's difficult to do a 'scientific' test of this issue, as there's no way of making the jeeps stay put. Even fanatic drivers quickly start to reverse away from the enemy, often exposing their flanks.

 

I think this issue also affects trucks and other vehicles with window glass, but I haven't tested this.

 

Link to the original thread with video:

http://community.battlefront.com/topic/125392-invulnerable-jeep-now-with-video/

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Not again...!

I thought we concluded back then that Soft Vehicles (in general) have a different way of receiving and taking damage from Small Arms compared to Hard Vehicles.

Thou, your tests of having Windshields up vs. down is interesting, and didn't think it would matter...I wonder if it's a carry-over from CMSF where Vehicles with Glass (Armored) would receive better Small Arms protection (and it wasn't deleted for the WWII Titles) ?

Joe

Edited by JoMc67

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2 hours ago, Bulletpoint said:

It's difficult to do a 'scientific' test of this issue, as there's no way of making the jeeps stay put. Even fanatic drivers quickly start to reverse away from the enemy, often exposing their flanks.

Maybe you can box the jeeps in with buildings or other dismounted vehicles? Or drive the jeeps repeatedly over fences until the wheels are too damaged for movement, and then move the LMG team in front of them and open fire?

Also, any idea if this issue also affects trucks? Might be easier to box in a truck since it's longer...

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2 hours ago, Bulletpoint said:

It's difficult to do a 'scientific' test of this issue, as there's no way of making the jeeps stay put. Even fanatic drivers quickly start to reverse away from the enemy, often exposing their flanks.

Try selecting 'Immobilised' in 'Vehicle Condition'.  ;)

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1 minute ago, Sgt.Squarehead said:

Try selecting 'Immobilised' in 'Vehicle Condition'.  ;)

I tried that of course :) It makes the jeep drivers dismount and I can't put them back in, even in the "Deploy Allies" setup mode.

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2 hours ago, JoMc67 said:

I wonder if it's a carry-over from CMSF where Vehicles with Glass (Armored) would receive better Small Arms protection (and it wasn't deleted for the WWII Titles) ?

I have been thinking the same thing. The CM2 series started out with a modern title (Shock Force), so maybe the "glass" material was defined as bullet resistant back then?

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Dammit, I forgot about that!  :wacko:

Maybe place the Jeeps in 'Deploy Mode', then nip back to the map and paint the tiles they are sitting on as Marsh?

TBH this isn't a 'problem' that I've noticed, whenever I've exposed Jeeps to small-arms fire the results have been much as you might expect.....Carnage!  :o

Edited by Sgt.Squarehead

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I suspect what might be happening is the difference between a hit on exposed crew / passengers and the damage calculation for a penetration.  Do the hits to windshield report as penetrations?

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30 minutes ago, Sgt.Squarehead said:

Dammit, I forgot about that!  :wacko:

Maybe place the jeeps in 'Deploy Mode', then nip back to the map and paint the tiles they are sitting on as Marsh?

That's a really clever idea. I just tried it out, and it works. Jeeps don't move now.

I'm running the test a couple of more times now, using the stationary jeeps. The pattern seems to be the same. The jeep drivers without a windshield get killed within the first 15-20 seconds every time. Often faster, but it also depends on how quickly the Germans spot them. The ones with a windshield survive much longer, but the survival time varies.

I had one test where all but one of the jeeps had been knocked out after 1 minute. But I'm looking at another test now where there are two jeeps surviving after 2 minutes. This is at 130m distance. 

Edited by Bulletpoint

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7 minutes ago, akd said:

I suspect what might be happening is the difference between a hit on exposed crew / passengers and the damage calculation for a penetration.  Do the hits to windshield report as penetrations?

Yes, that is my assumption too. All hits result in a "penetration" message.

I guess what happens is that the game correctly calculates that the bullet hits the windshield, correctly calculates that it penetrates, but then the bullet path is stopped from hitting the driver and instead there's some kind of random lookup on a table to see what the effect of that penetration will be.

And getting the driver killed is only a small chance on that table. So in effect, the driver can soak up tonnes of ammo as long as he has his windshield.

I suppose the easy solution would be to reduce the armour value for the windshield to zero, or simply disable it completely from armour hit calculations (letting all bullets pass through it as if it were air)

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