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Battlefront has put a spell on me...


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Very different beasts, despite some similarities. Compared MoW has clear roots from a popular RTS subgenre (without the base building) where you gather "resources" and "build" units. That it also tries to have any realism is certainly a plus - but in the end it's the same easily disposable nigh-unlimited troops that will sacrifice themselves at your mere click, arbitrary point capture and hold and roster being more or less balanced to not give any side an unfair advantage e.g. gamey. It is certainly a very fun game and surprisingly nice to play. My favorite "gamey" RTS together with Wargame.

Combat Mission on the other hand is clearly inspired by Close Combat (the 2nd generation CM more so than the first) - your troops are limited, they matter and they don't want to die, having morale or even names. And the game couldn't care less about being fair. A German Koenigstiger will murder a dozen Shermans without blinking before their subpar optics will even spot one. Abrams will eat T72B3 and T90A for dinner at 2km+ at night because of its advanced FLIR resolution. It will provide you with challenge you never hoped for from typical RTS games and every dead soldier will hurt (especially in modern era titles where soldier roles are clearly defined versus WW2 era where you just had 12 dudes armed with samey bolt action rifles).

That you lost all your men in MoW is exactly because of that. in CM your troops know better than to rush the enemy and help you not make mistakes through staying away from trouble as best as they can. In MoW it's very easy to lose if you will just rush your squad at a static enemy's one which can easily break your whole dynamics for the whole game due to you having to wait while you get those arbitrary purchase points back.

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Yeah I play MoW and Call to Arms (same dev as MoW but it's set in modern time) I also play wargame red dragon these are my go to game before I discovered true war games haha.

Yeah a lot of time I lose in MoW because things are happening too fast and my men take damage real fast from a huge distance, too many times I get overwhelm and have no idea what to do and how to proceed before something else change. However, my experience today with the WE/GO system reminded me of another game call Frozen Synapse which allowed me to think carefully and analyze the situation before proceeding , undoubtedly this system helped me win today's game as I could afford to employ certain strategy and tactics on the battlefield in Black Sea. I always felt that I had a good sense of tactics but could rarely use it in most RTS because of the real time aspect and how fast things happen. After playing Arma 3 for sometime I got a sense of how real combat pace is like and how slow it can be which CM does model it so tremendously well. 

Edited by Ridaz
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Nothing is quite like CM, trust me.....I've been an avid wargamer for over thirty years, I've played everything from ACW skirmishes on a typical dinner table through to Harpoon battles on a tables the size of a double garage and nothing, but nothing, does a better job of modelling platoon-battalion sized WWII or modern land engagements than CM, be it on tabletop or computer.

I commented elsewhere about GHQ (& their ilk) being a nostalgia trip for me.....CM1 & CM2+ are the reason.  ;)

Edited by Sgt.Squarehead
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5 minutes ago, Michael Emrys said:

GHQ=General Headquarters. Also the name of a company that manufactured miniature models. I honestly don't know if they are still in business.

ACW=The American Civil War.

Michael

I din't know myself but @Sgt.Squarehead posted a link in one of these threads.  I still have some 1/285 Micro Armour.  Those were the days. 

http://www.ghqmodels.com/pages/military/index.asp

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16 hours ago, Michael Emrys said:

GHQ=General Headquarters. Also the name of a company that manufactured miniature models. I honestly don't know if they are still in business.

ACW=The American Civil War.

Michael

I see thanks, but I am not really into board game or miniatures.

BTW I finally bit the bullet and bought black sea! Hope I have no regrets!!

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5 hours ago, Ales Dvorak said:

In the end you'll buy them all. ;)

Definitely! 

1 hour ago, Lethaface said:

Enjoy! :)

At least you can get a nasi goreng kampong for just 2-3 RM. Any decent takeaway food here cost from ~Eur 15,- pp and upwards. 

Haha its now priced at Rm 4-5 but its nice to know others who know Malaysian culture 

I also wanted to share my shopping list for this Steam winter sale as you can see there are more than a dozen games including DLCs and some are hidden under complete edition like Syrian Warfare. All of these games total up to RM253 which is shockingly still cheaper than one CM game which is RM263. This is why it took me more than a week of contemplation before making a battlefront purchase. However I have no regrets getting black sea as its one of a kind, I even told all my Arma friends about it and how it models it so accurately as well. Now I am looking for an operational wargame that is set in the modern times but I am still having trouble finding one. 

 

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Graviteam Tactics is very good. But its learning curve can break your desire to play it. That said it's the only other strategy game that models tank warfare to such degree, if not better. Also freeform campaigns.

Steel Armor is the same engine and is a very good tank sim.

Syrian Warfare is... Oh boi. Let's just say it's not a realistic wargame and is equal to Russia Today being a game

CM Black Sea is a great choice and is definitely the most realistic modern warfare strategy game. And do note that despite being the same engine modern and WW2 eras CM play differently. Modern era is about stealth, long range and 1 shot 1 kill. WW2 is a lot more about brute force and staying together

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3 hours ago, kraze said:

Graviteam Tactics is very good. But its learning curve can break your desire to play it. That said it's the only other strategy game that models tank warfare to such degree, if not better. Also freeform campaigns.

Steel Armor is the same engine and is a very good tank sim.

Syrian Warfare is... Oh boi. Let's just say it's not a realistic wargame and is equal to Russia Today being a game

CM Black Sea is a great choice and is definitely the most realistic modern warfare strategy game. And do note that despite being the same engine modern and WW2 eras CM play differently. Modern era is about stealth, long range and 1 shot 1 kill. WW2 is a lot more about brute force and staying together

Yeah i really loved graviteam tactics games, i bought every one of their games on steam except for the two DLCs that came out 2 weeks ago. Yes the game is brutal and their tutorial are designed to make you lose most of the time. But their devs are always active in the forum plus their games are really cheap when compared to battlefront. I love their open terrain and epic battles which CM doesn't have but they lack in CQB or urban warfare which is what i love the most.

I bought Syrian Warfare mainly because it's set in a current conflict that interests me and I can kill ISIS. Also the game is more realistic than most other RTS. The vehicles has component based damage system and if you play on realistic mode, most of the infantry will die in one or two shots. 

I love black sea or just modern warfare in general because of all the new cutting edge weapons like NVG, RWS, ERA and UAV. I can't get enough of them and I have Arma 3 to thank for that. I'll definitely be getting Battle of Normandy next. 

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14 minutes ago, Ridaz said:

their games are really cheap when compared to battlefront

However, Battlefront games last for years in terms of whether you get tired of playing them.

Many of us here have been playing CMBN since it came out and are still playing it. ( and all the others as well ). Which adds up to some serious value for money.

If in any doubt, download some of the demos :) 

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23 hours ago, Ts4EVER said:

Regarding graviteam tactics: I like the graphics and tank armor systems, but is it just me or do you have very little control over what actually happens in a battle?

Yeah the game is meant to be played in a realistic commander way, where your men will decide what to do. I appreciate what they are trying to do but personally I would love to have some control over my men and only leave them to shoot and stay in cover or react accordingly in emergencies.

 

 

I posted a mini AAR on the tutorial scenario and how the AI reacted realistically to my actions .

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On 1/3/2018 at 7:24 PM, Ts4EVER said:

Regarding graviteam tactics: I like the graphics and tank armor systems, but is it just me or do you have very little control over what actually happens in a battle?

Not any less than in CM. The command point limitation is there to introduce a similar system like WeGo except in real-time where you can't just change orders whenever you wish or give them out to 10 units at the same time. Other than that it's only tough for infantry most of the time but due to predominantly open and flat maps instead of mechanics - you can tell armored combat is the primary focus here.

But that's one of the reasons why CM is a superior game all in all

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