Area target question

[Stefano Z]

Hello all,

In WeGo games, is it possible to area target different action spots in the same turn without issuing movement orders?

Thank you,

Stefano

[Erwin]

You would have to have movement paths and waypoints.  You could target from each waypoint and have a PAUSE at the first waypoint that would stop the unit from traveling to any additional waypoints.  Not sure what you are trying to achieve.

[Stefano Z]

1 hour ago, Erwin said:

You would have to have movement paths and waypoints.  You could target from each waypoint and have a PAUSE at the first waypoint that would stop the unit from traveling to any additional waypoints.  Not sure what you are trying to achieve.

I am trying to have a stationary unit targeting different action squares in the same turn.  Let's say a stationary IFV "walking" fire along a treeline, or targeting different buildings, to cover advancing infantry.  Mostly to avoid a vehicle getting bogged and minimize exposure to enemy fire.

Edited December 13, 2017 by Stefano Z

[A Canadian Cat]

2 hours ago, Stefano Z said:

In WeGo games, is it possible to area target different action spots in the same turn without issuing movement orders?

No you cannot accomplish this unfortunately

[Erwin]

Even since CMSF, have accomplished basically what you want by giving minimum distance waypoints with a pause and fire order at each one.

[Kinophile]

Same here (Erwin) 

But it's something I've also wished for. Laying down suppressive fire in a line, along a street/tree line or hill top. 

I've lost IFVs doing the above hack method, as moving them at all invites way more attention, a bit frustrating seeing as in reality it's just traversing the turret. Plus moving affects t's RUS/UKR accuracy more, Plus you lose valuable seconds at each pause. 

But it's currently the only way. It can be done safely, and there is something to be said for shoot & scoot (or is it suppress & egress?). 

[sburke]

It is questionable how much suppression one unit can do in 60 seconds.  This has not been the first time this has been suggested on the forum and I always wonder what folks are thinking.  

Using the OP example using an afv to walk fire along a hedge.  By the time your fire hits the end of the hedge odds are any units at the beginning have shaken off suppression assuming you were even able to suppress them.  The amount of fire it takes is a little more than what this request seems to apply.  My perspective is if you need to suppress that much territory, you need more units doing the suppression.

i once beta tested Sacrifice for a new religion (CMBN) with another tester. I needed to suppress the defenders in a few buildings in order to advance on this monastery. I had 2 full companies and I had everyone targeting something along with mortars. A person in the room who could hear my opponents game was floored at the amount of fire being output.  I still failed. 

My point is if you aren’t concentrating fire, you aren’t suppressing and odds are your tank is gonna get lit up. CMBS is far less forgiving than the WW2 variants for armor.  Area fire typically covers 3 action squares. That is 24 meters or approx 75 feet. That is a lot of space to suppress in 60 seconds. 

Edited December 14, 2017 by sburke

[A Canadian Cat]

^^^ what he said. Bring a few more IFVs up to the line and have them all fire simultaneously along the hedge row you want to suppress.

[Stefano Z]

38 minutes ago, sburke said:

It is questionable how much suppression one unit can do in 60 seconds.  This has not been the first time this has been suggested on the forum and I always wonder what folks are thinking.  

I was not even thinking about suppression.  In my limited CMBS experience even a 15 second-long HE 30 mm burst is sufficient to clear out an action square in a woodline.  Same thing with foxholes or trenches.  I do not play WW2 titles so I cannot comment on those.  I am aware of all the workaround/alternatives that have been proposed in response to my initial post but they all come with a cost.

[Erwin]

Also, it's quite common in the smaller CM2 games to not have a mass of IFV's to bring up.  But, agreed... in modern titles, 15-20 secs of 20mm+ is often more than sufficient to suppress or even kill.

[HerrTom]

54 minutes ago, Erwin said:

Also, it's quite common in the smaller CM2 games to not have a mass of IFV's to bring up.  But, agreed... in modern titles, 15-20 secs of 20mm+ is often more than sufficient to suppress or even kill.

Not to mention doing this once or twice is going to use up all your ammo!

[Kinophile]

For me I inherently dislike area fire. I find it wasteful of my ammo. 

Sometimes/often I wish to light up a treeline &  along a road; with area fire I can waste 30% of my outgoing on ground in front of and behind the offending ditch. Now, I know the dastardly russkies are hiding in that ditch, and any reasonably intelligent IFV commander (oxymoron? :P) would aim along the ditch in a line, not spray the ground in front, the tree tops, the fields beyond the road, etc. Targeted linear suppression, would be a decent description? 

Currently, having only truly are fire feels like a holdover from WW2 titles, and while AF definitely has its uses I feel a more accurate control is appropriate to a modern situation such as CMBS. 

Edited December 15, 2017 by kinophile

[TimUA]

On 13.12.2017 at 9:29 PM, Stefano Z said:

Hello all,

In WeGo games, is it possible to area target different action spots in the same turn without issuing movement orders?

Thank you,

Stefano

 I would rather reask this quistion this way: is it possible to target different action spots in the same turn?

Yes, it is possible, at least for infantry(not support weapons). Do next: 

1. Give move order to the tile where you want to shoot from initally
2. then give target order from this waypoint to the aimed area 
3. then set the pause, to let your unit shoot during this pause
4. then plot another move order to anywhere else.
5 DRAG and DROP the second waypoint on the same tile where 1st waypoint located. The 1st waypoint will look like pyramide, the 2nd one will look like a ball.
6. Choose the 2nd waypoint(the ball) and give target (or target light) order to another direction.

This way your infantry will move to the 1st point, then shoot 1st aim during the pause you've set, then switch to another aim and shoot at it WITHIN one turn.

[c3k]

25 minutes ago, TimUA said:

 I would rather reask this quistion this way: is it possible to target different action spots in the same turn?

Yes, it is possible, at least for infantry(not support weapons). Do next: 

1. Give move order to the tile where you want to shoot from initally
2. then give target order from this waypoint to the aimed area 
3. then set the pause, to let your unit shoot during this pause
4. then plot another move order to anywhere else.
5 DRAG and DROP the second waypoint on the same tile where 1st waypoint located. The 1st waypoint will look like pyramide, the 2nd one will look like a ball.
6. Choose the 2nd waypoint(the ball) and give target (or target light) order to another direction.

This way your infantry will move to the 1st point, then shoot 1st aim during the pause you've set, then switch to another aim and shoot at it WITHIN one turn.

aaaaahhhh. Must try this....

[Michael Emrys]

47 minutes ago, TimUA said:

 I would rather reask this quistion this way: is it possible to target different action spots in the same turn?

Yes, it is possible, at least for infantry(not support weapons). Do next: 

1. Give move order to the tile where you want to shoot from initally
2. then give target order from this waypoint to the aimed area 
3. then set the pause, to let your unit shoot during this pause
4. then plot another move order to anywhere else.
5 DRAG and DROP the second waypoint on the same tile where 1st waypoint located. The 1st waypoint will look like pyramide, the 2nd one will look like a ball.
6. Choose the 2nd waypoint(the ball) and give target (or target light) order to another direction.

This way your infantry will move to the 1st point, then shoot 1st aim during the pause you've set, then switch to another aim and shoot at it WITHIN one turn.

Sneaky!  I'll have to give this a try. Thank you!

Michael

[TimUA]

28 minutes ago, c3k said:

aaaaahhhh. Must try this....

I'm surprised that such expirienced player as c3k didn't know this trick .


Althought i have to warn you that sometimes you may see a bug- your unit doesn't shoot while paused, all soldiers just sit in "waiting" status till the pause will end to execute next command.
At least i met this bug when my troops revealed the enemy on previous turn. Then, the next turn i set target area shooting of suspected positions(to floating icon), gave them a pause for 30 sec's and run to a new position to evade returning fire. My troops were waiting till the end of a pause doing nothing, then escaped.
You should be careful with this "pause" order.


I suspect that it depends on order of commands you given to it. I'll have a try but the correct order of commands IMHO is this:
move->shoot from 1st waypoint->plot next move(not pause!), drag and drop it on the 1st waypoint->only then set a pause for 1st waypoint->set new target for 2nd waypoint, etc.

[Erwin]

Have never used this technique as have observed that if waypoints are on top of each other, they can get cancelled out (for movement purposes). ie: one of them is ignored and the unit moves on as if one of the waypoints (the 2nd?) never existed.  Looking forward to experimenting with above technique.

[A Canadian Cat]

Cool I didn't know you could do this either. Makes perfect sense.

For Mortar and MG teams this might work too since moving small distances no longer requires tear down and redeploy. Have you tired it @TimUA?

[TimUA]

2 hours ago, IanL said:

Cool I didn't know you could do this either. Makes perfect sense.

For Mortar and MG teams this might work too since moving small distances no longer requires tear down and redeploy. Have you tired it @TimUA?

Yes i did. Unfortunatelly mg and mortar start to redeploy with relative consequences. 

[Stefano Z]

7 hours ago, TimUA said:

 I would rather reask this quistion this way: is it possible to target different action spots in the same turn?

Yes, it is possible, at least for infantry(not support weapons). Do next: 

1. Give move order to the tile where you want to shoot from initally
2. then give target order from this waypoint to the aimed area 
3. then set the pause, to let your unit shoot during this pause
4. then plot another move order to anywhere else.
5 DRAG and DROP the second waypoint on the same tile where 1st waypoint located. The 1st waypoint will look like pyramide, the 2nd one will look like a ball.
6. Choose the 2nd waypoint(the ball) and give target (or target light) order to another direction.

This way your infantry will move to the 1st point, then shoot 1st aim during the pause you've set, then switch to another aim and shoot at it WITHIN one turn.

I thought this would delete the previous waypoint, but never experimented, thank you!  Have you tried with vehicles?

[A Canadian Cat]

11 minutes ago, Stefano Z said:

I thought this would delete the previous waypoint, but never experimented, thank you!  Have you tried with vehicles?

I do that all the time with vehicles. Move them back and forth a short distance to target multiple things. Three is a practical limit 15s or so for each target and some movement time and there is your one minute turn...

[Stefano Z]

7 minutes ago, IanL said:

I do that all the time with vehicles. Move them back and forth a short distance to target multiple things. Three is a practical limit 15s or so for each target and some movement time and there is your one minute turn...

The problem with this approach, in particular with the Russians, is that the driver is busy driving and not spotting and sometimes it ends badly.

[A Canadian Cat]

31 minutes ago, Stefano Z said:

The problem with this approach, in particular with the Russians, is that the driver is busy driving and not spotting and sometimes it ends badly.

True enough. I actually forgot this is BS forum. With the AT systems available in BS I very rarely do this. I have found my self doing a lot more of shoot and scoot in CMBS. Armour stays alive longer when someone else finds targets for it and the armour pops up shoots and goes away - preferably to a different location.

[Stefano Z]

12 minutes ago, IanL said:

True enough. I actually forgot this is BS forum. With the AT systems available in BS I very rarely do this. I have found my self doing a lot more of shoot and scoot in CMBS. Armour stays alive longer when someone else finds targets for it and the armour pops up shoots and goes away - preferably to a different location.

Yes, that is crucial if your opponent has drones and precision arty - and/or Javelins...

[TimUA]

2 hours ago, Stefano Z said:

I thought this would delete the previous waypoint, but never experimented, thank you!  Have you tried with vehicles?

this approach isn't applicable for vehicles, unfortunately