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      Special Upgrade 4 Tech Tips   12/27/2016

      Hi all! Now that Upgrade 4 is out and about in large quantities we have now discovered a few SNAFUs that happen out in the scary, real world that is home computing.  Fortunately the rate of problems is extremely small and so far most are easily worked around.  We've identified a few issues that have similar causes which we have clear instructions for work arounds here they are: 1.  CMRT Windows customers need to re-license their original key.  This is a result of improvements to the licensing system which CMBN, CMBS, and CMFB are already using.  To do this launch CMRT with the Upgrade and the first time enter your Engine 4 key.  Exit and then use the "Activate New Products" shortcut in your CMRT folder, then enter your Engine 3 license key.  That should do the trick. 2.  CMRT and CMBN MacOS customers have a similar situation as #2, however the "Activate New Products" is inside the Documents folder in their respective CM folders.  For CMBN you have to go through the process described above for each of your license keys.  There is no special order to follow. 3.  For CMBS and CMFB customers, you need to use the Activate New Products shortcut and enter your Upgrade 4 key.  If you launch the game and see a screen that says "LICENSE FAILURE: Base Game 4.0 is required." that is an indication you haven't yet gone through that procedure.  Provided you had a properly functioning copy before installing the Upgrade, that should be all you need to do.  If in the future you have to install from scratch on a new system you'll need to do the same procedure for both your original license key and your Upgrade 4.0 key. 4.  There's always a weird one and here it is.  A few Windows users are not getting "Activate New Products" shortcuts created during installation.  Apparently anti-virus software is preventing the installer from doing its job.  This might not be a problem right now, but it will prove to be an issue at some point in the future.  The solution is to create your own shortcut using the following steps: Disable your anti-virus software before you do anything. Go to your Desktop, right click on the Desktop itself, select NEW->SHORTCUT, use BROWSE to locate the CM EXE that you are trying to fix. The location is then written out. After it type in a single space and then paste this:

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      Click NEXT and give your new Shortcut a name (doesn't matter what). Confirm that and you're done. Double click on the new Shortcut and you should be prompted to license whatever it is you need to license. At this time we have not identified any issues that have not been worked around.  Let's hope it stays that way Steve
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      Forum Reorganization   10/12/2017

      We've reorganized our Combat Mission Forums to reflect the fact that most of you are now running Engine 4 and that means you're all using the same basic code.  Because of that, there's no good reason to have the discussion about Combat Mission spread out over 5 separate sets of Forums.  There is now one General Discussion area with Tech Support and Scenario/Mod Tips sub forums.  The Family specific Tech Support Forums have been moved to a new CM2 Archives area and frozen in place. You might also notice we dropped the "x" from distinguishing between the first generation of CM games and the second.  The "x" was reluctantly adopted back in 2005 or so because at the time we had the original three CM games on European store shelves entitled CM1, CM2, and CM3 (CMBO, CMBB, and CMAK).  We didn't want to cause confusion so we added the "x".  Time has moved on and we have to, so the "x" is now gone from our public vocabulary as it has been from our private vocabulary for quite a while already.  Side note, Charles *NEVER* used the "x" so now we're all speaking the same language as him.  Which is important since he is the one programming them

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So, I drive up a Panther to a tall hedgerow in order to kill a tank destroyer on the other side. The panther spots the TD, but only opens up with its hull machinegun (shooting at the exposed crew).

It doesn't fire its main gun. I check the targeting line; it's grey.

There are some low hedges and bushes between the panther and the TD, so I guess they interfere with the targeting. BUT how can it be that the hull MG can shoot, and the main gun cannot? Surely the main gun is located much higher, so it should be able to shoot over the bushes, whereas the hull MG should have its vision blocked?

I leave the Panther in position for a couple of turns. After the TD crew button up, the Panther stops firing. After a few turns, the TD spots the panther and fires at it. So there is LOF for the TD but not for the Panther.

How can this be?

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Are there trees between them, not just bushes but full-sized trees? Also, you said the target line was grey. Were you able to Target the TD manually or did it say No Line of Sight?

Edited by Vanir Ausf B

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LOS in CM2 is often frustrating and becoming familiar with its idiosyncrasies is a challenge of its own.  The above issue is most often experienced with HMG's and direct fire guns (inf or AFV's).

My hope is that in CM3 there may be a routine that allows the AI to move the weapon the required few inches to attain LOS when the player eyeballing the situation sees no obstruction. 

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10 hours ago, Vanir Ausf B said:

Are there trees between them, not just bushes but full-sized trees? Also, you said the target line was grey. Were you able to Target the TD manually or did it say No Line of Sight?

I checked for trees, because I thought maybe the hull gunner could draw LOS under treetop foliage that would block LOS for the main gun. But there were no trees (yes, I made sure to toggle trees ON ;) )

Target line was grey, and I was able to manually target the TD. However, no shots were fired.

 

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Ok, after thinking about this some more, I think it must have to do with the tank's vision cone. Tanks get a restricted arc of vision when they drive up to bocage.

Maybe it's possible that the TD was just off the main gun's cone of vision, but that the hull MG, being placed further forward, would get a wider cone of vision through bocage, and thus being able to target the TD? Meanwhile, the TD, not being in bocage, would have 360 degrees of freedom to fire, and thus be able to target the Panther.

It just seemed like the TD was not that far off to the right. I've been playing this game for years, and it seems to me that I have been able to target before in those situations.

Edited by Bulletpoint

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8 hours ago, Bulletpoint said:

<Snip> Maybe it's possible that the TD was just off the main gun's cone of vision, but that the hull MG, being placed further forward, would get a wider cone of vision through bocage, and thus being able to target the TD? Meanwhile, the TD, not being in bocage, would have 360 degrees of freedom to fire, and thus be able to target the Panther.  <Snip> 

Do you have a saved turn so you can reload it and move the Panther around a bit to test your theory?  This does sound frustrating.   

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Why not take a screenshot? I mean how are we supposed to interpret that just from a vague description.

Although these situations are frustrating, but each crew member draws there own LOS, if the main gunners LOS is blocked by a leaf or something it only impacts him.

Edited by Raptorx7

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11 hours ago, Bulletpoint said:

Ok, after thinking about this some more, I think it must have to do with the tank's vision cone. Tanks get a restricted arc of vision when they drive up to bocage.

Maybe it's possible that the TD was just off the main gun's cone of vision, but that the hull MG, being placed further forward, would get a wider cone of vision through bocage, and thus being able to target the TD? Meanwhile, the TD, not being in bocage, would have 360 degrees of freedom to fire, and thus be able to target the Panther.

It just seemed like the TD was not that far off to the right. I've been playing this game for years, and it seems to me that I have been able to target before in those situations.

Perhaps, but if the gunner does not have LOS I am surprised it let you Target the TD. If you still have my email send me the save game file. Once I know the map and location it won't be difficult to test if bocage is to blame.

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13 hours ago, Vanir Ausf B said:

Perhaps, but if the gunner does not have LOS I am surprised it let you Target the TD. If you still have my email send me the save game file. Once I know the map and location it won't be difficult to test if bocage is to blame.

To be honest, I had a bit of a "Hitler reacts" moment that evening, so I quit the game without saving :) 

But since you offer to take a look at it, I will try to see if I can recreate the situation.

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FWIW I've found a 'Hunt' order to the vehicle's current location (ie: a move on the same action spot) sometimes helps with these issues, even more so with infantry.

9 hours ago, Bulletpoint said:

To be honest, I had a bit of a "Hitler reacts" moment that evening, so I quit the game without saving :) 

That happens to me quite a lot too, but I'm trying to give it up these days so I can get some saves of these mad moments!  ;)

Edited by Sgt.Squarehead

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On 11/26/2017 at 1:42 AM, Bulletpoint said:

Maybe it's possible that the TD was just off the main gun's cone of vision, but that the hull MG, being placed further forward, would get a wider cone of vision through bocage, and thus being able to target the TD? Meanwhile, the TD, not being in bocage, would have 360 degrees of freedom to fire, and thus be able to target the Panther.

That may be it. I ran the saved game for a while until the Panther re-spotted the TD on the right, but still could not fire even when I Targeted manually. The TD never fired on the Panther either. Then I ran a pioneer squad up and blew a hole in the bocage directly in front of the Panther, which immediately opened up on the TD.

Edited by Vanir Ausf B

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8 hours ago, Vanir Ausf B said:

That may be it. I ran the saved game for a while until the Panther re-spotted the TD on the right, but still could not fire even when I Targeted manually. The TD never fired on the Panther either. Then I ran a pioneer squad up and blew a hole in the bocage directly in front of the Panther, which immediately opened up on the TD.

Thanks for taking a look at it. It just seems to me I have had tanks fire from similar positions many times in the past - both US and German tanks. Not sure what about this particular hedgerow setup that would make it different...

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29 minutes ago, Bulletpoint said:

Thanks for taking a look at it. It just seems to me I have had tanks fire from similar positions many times in the past - both US and German tanks. Not sure what about this particular hedgerow setup that would make it different...

It's also that you may think your in the exact position (or the TD), but can be off by less then a meter (and as players can't tell), and that pixel difference can mean the difference of LOS/LOF...

This might be the same situation as a Vehicle a hundred meters deep in the woods, and think it's safe from outside LOS (or would be in RL), but the game mechanics was able to find a pixel LOS, and was able to get LOF for one shot.

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The reality is that getting down to ground level and "eyeballing" the situation often does not work.  One experiences this often in urban situations where one cannot target any part of an entire building when there are no obvious obstructions to LOS.

It's a similar situation to one's ability to check LOS to a target from any waypoint one makes on the map.  The problem is that when your unit arrives at that waypoint it often cannot get that same LOS.  One wonders why BF did all that programming work to allow LOS to be checked from every waypoint, when it often doesn't work that way. 

It's a good example of how an experienced player has to learn how to fight/play "the game system" as opposed to playing the game as if it were RL.  It's not a game breaker by any means.  One learns to work around it.  But, again, hopefully, something for BF to consider improving for CM3.

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On ‎11‎/‎28‎/‎2017 at 10:26 AM, Erwin said:

It's a similar situation to one's ability to check LOS to a target from any waypoint one makes on the map.  The problem is that when your unit arrives at that waypoint it often cannot get that same LOS.  One wonders why BF did all that programming work to allow LOS to be checked from every waypoint, when it often doesn't work that way.

I only play WEGO against AI or Human Opponents, and have a 'House Rule' for players to only check LOS and  'Area-Fire' (no Direct Targeting allowed) at beginning of turn (and not at every way-point).

Thou, I'm debating on changing that so a Player is allowed to 'Area-Fire' at Beginning of Turn, and at one additional way-point (of course allowing to check LOS of that way-point ahead of time).

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11 hours ago, JoMc67 said:

I only play WEGO against AI or Human Opponents,

What's the other option? LOL.

 

Mord.

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LOL. No. I was making a joke. You said you only play WEGO against the AI or Humans. You needed a comma in there. Kinda like; "Time to eat uncle Bill!" As opposed to "Time to eat, uncle Bill."

 

Mord.

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