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IED not working?

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42 minutes ago, Combatintman said:

Not as far as I am aware - both appear on the map at the same time when you select 'deploy forces'. I think IEDs are coded with similar attributes to vehicles which means that you cannot place them in buildings. To be honest it isn't a showstopper, placing a massive IED at the front door of a structure and detonating it will yield the same or close enough result to that if the thing was inside the building.

I think there was a work around for placing an IED in a building during scenario creation.  Was it @Sgt.Squarehead who discovered it?  If you placed the IED first and then placed a building on top of it.  Only worked for the first floor.  This is only possible when creating a scenario and is not something a player could do however.  If I am remembering correctly.  I tagged Sgt.Squarehead.  Maybe he will stop by and tell us more about it. 

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3 hours ago, MOS:96B2P said:

I think there was a work around for placing an IED in a building during scenario creation.  Was it @Sgt.Squarehead who discovered it?  If you placed the IED first and then placed a building on top of it.  Only worked for the first floor.  This is only possible when creating a scenario and is not something a player could do however.  If I am remembering correctly.  I tagged Sgt.Squarehead.  Maybe he will stop by and tell us more about it. 

I opened his masterpiece of a death trap Mosul scenario and all IEDs are outside.  Some are close, but none inside buildings.

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3 minutes ago, sburke said:

I opened his masterpiece of a death trap Mosul scenario and all IEDs are outside.  Some are close, but none inside buildings.

Hmmm, okay.  Maybe it didn't work out then. I would just test it myself but I'm trying to re-do the "C2 and information sharing" thread that Photobucket destroyed.  He will eventually come along and comment........................   

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3 hours ago, MOS:96B2P said:

Hmmm, okay.  Maybe it didn't work out then. I would just test it myself but I'm trying to re-do the "C2 and information sharing" thread that Photobucket destroyed.  He will eventually come along and comment........................   

Until then .... liar, liar pants on fire ;)

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looooool Good one. But who would want to put an IED inside ? that would certainly keep everyone on edge - building by building.

Roadside IEDs - now thats classic.

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@borg IEDs in CMSF were meant to replicate their usage as known - roadside devices to hit targets with little risk to the insurgents.  They aren't "booby traps" per se.  That we can utilize them as such is just another example of creativity in the community.  Yeah I know we all know that, just resetting the reference point.  As to why, try Sgt Squarehead's scenario if you haven't.  He's certainly created the feel of booby trapped buildings.

Been tinkering around with the idea of some scenarios based around patrolling for IEDs.  The big weakness has always been the inability to ID them or do anything about them or knowing you have done anything about them.  The idea is to place them on unknown touch objectives.  The objective carries no points just notification you found an IED.  If you haven't been blown up odds are you've managed to deal with the triggerman, if you haven't you at least know the spot to avoid (it is assumed you call it in and ask for a demolition team).  The IED would also be placed with some kind of flavor object so just as in RL you have some thing to look for as potential locations  - hats off to @Sgt.Squarehead for that idea.  So the game scenario might be something like patrol the MSR on the Ramadi map and clear any IEDs.  You take your unit and go looking whilst also dealing with any snipers or other insurgent attacks.  It wouldn't be your typical CM battle and maybe a bit boring for some folks but definitely a different experience.  Small unit action on a large map potentially mixed in a campaign where the mission to patrol for IEDs is what you always start with and the day becomes whatever the day becomes.  :D  

Wondering if at some point we'll have suicide vest uncons.  Doubt it but that would really alter things.

 

 

 

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22 hours ago, MOS:96B2P said:

 

I think there was a work around for placing an IED in a building during scenario creation.  Was it @Sgt.Squarehead who discovered it?  If you placed the IED first and then placed a building on top of it.  Only worked for the first floor.  This is only possible when creating a scenario and is not something a player could do however.  If I am remembering correctly.  I tagged Sgt.Squarehead.  Maybe he will stop by and tell us more about it. 

 

Yep this method works, but is not fall proof. Sometimes the triggerman opens fire, even when on hide, with his weapon and is killed before he detonates the IED. Just use a large IED and place it outside by the door,  the end result is much the same as if its placed inside the building.

P

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It can be done, I just did it. The only problem is you'll probably need two buildings because if you only use one, the IEDs will squirt out into the open. I set up a test with the smallest building foot print, so bigger ones might not have that problem. I put three specialist teams worth of IEDs on an AS then plopped two 6 story buildings down. The first on the IEDs, the second in front of it. The one in front ended up with the bombs. I had a couple teams of US infantry in the building facing the uncons, and had a team of 12 run from behind them to enter from the front. One radio uncon blew his wad a bit too soon with a huge IED, heavily wounding a couple soldiers two floors above, and lightly wounding part of the squad. Another dude's malfunctioned. Once the 12 man squad took a turn to recover from being rattled they proceeded as ordered (probably figuring the worst was over). Once they got inside the Cell uncon set off his IED and brought both buildings to the ground. It pretty much looked like he killed all of them, including an HQ that was on the ground floor of the building in the back.

Long way to answer the question.

 

Mord.

Edited by Mord

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10 hours ago, sburke said:

<Snip>  So the game scenario might be something like patrol the MSR on the Ramadi map and clear any IEDs.  You take your unit and go looking whilst also dealing with any snipers or other insurgent attacks.  It wouldn't be your typical CM battle and maybe a bit boring for some folks but definitely a different experience.  Small unit action on a large map potentially mixed in a campaign where the mission to patrol for IEDs is what you always start with and the day becomes whatever the day becomes. <Snip> 

This sounds like it could really be something interesting.  I hope your able to make it work the way you want. 

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12 minutes ago, MOS:96B2P said:

This sounds like it could really be something interesting.  I hope your able to make it work the way you want. 

LOL me too I have slowly been building a storehouse of ideas mostly based on small unit actions and likely set in a campaign so I only have to worry about AI plans for one side.  Some of those ideas are for a spetsnaz campaign in Ukraine using CMBS.  I keep going back to advice from JonS and others about not over designing, not forcing the player to have to stick to "the plan" etc  I have the basic ideas, but trying to convert them into something that someone will like and has replay value is an art I have not yet acquired.  

With CMSF2 in the works I have started thinking more along the lines of a campaign whose focus is just to bring your men home while you deal with the grind of managing with the developing insurgency.  Blame LLF for that as his couple he has done on Ramadi have been a catalyst along with Chris's "the snitch" scenario from TF Panther. Sgt Squarehead's  use of IEDs and flavor items really got me thinking that there would be a way to incorporate them as something you could actually look for.  10 years later and still really fresh ideas coming out about how to design for the game and it is getting a face lift.  When it gets released I am popping open the best bottle of wine I have.  :D 

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There is another way to get IEDs inside buildings, but it requires you to commit an AI group to the team(s) involved (you can still reuse the slot after they go boom with snowballing) and it appears that you must script at least two AI Plans.

Basically assign the triggerman & any IEDs you want in the building to an AI Group, then in the AI Editor paint a single-tile setup location (that is entirely within a building) for that AI Group for each AI Plan.  It may be possible to paint the same location in multiple plans (I've not tried), but you do seem to need two plans to trigger the placement mechanism.  When deploying the units I dump these suicide bombers and their IEDs in a corner of the map, so when I test the game in Author Mode I should see them jump to one of the possible set-up locations as I press go (only the IEDs assigned to the AI Group move, others that are not assigned can be placed normally).  With a bit of scripting you can move the triggerman out of the 'booby-trapped' building, but getting him a guaranteed LOS back to his bombs once he moves out of his starting location can be tricky.

Note you don't have to use IEDs from the same triggerman, in one of my test scenarios I've added all the Huge IEDs from several (four IIRC) triggermen to one 'suicide-bomber'.....He really does go off with a bang!

PS - @sburke  When you opened Ashsh al-Dababir in the editor you will probably have noticed one building that was very seriously rigged indeed.....That is a legacy of the testing described above (in the simplified single-plan version currently available).  In the multi-plan variant, those IEDs and their triggerman bounced between one of three locations according to which AI plan you were on.  Sadly I just didn't have the AI Group slots to make it viable and a full multi-plan variant would have required some major rejigging of the secret objectives (and probably a slightly bigger map).  When I do eventually remake it in CM:SF II, I'll have an awful lot of options!  :ph34r:

PPS - IED hunting.....A 3x3 tile 'Hidden Objective' with the IED in the centre tile might work for this.....It's an all or nothing thing, you find the location, you know there's an IED there, even though you will never see it.  Not entirely satisfactory, but it's a thought.

FWIW

Edited by Sgt.Squarehead

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8 hours ago, Sgt.Squarehead said:

There is another way to get IEDs inside buildings, but it requires you to commit an AI group to the team(s) involved (you can still reuse the slot after they go boom with snowballing) and it appears that you must script at least two AI Plans.

Basically assign the triggerman & any IEDs you want in the building to an AI Group, then in the AI Editor paint a single-tile setup location (that is entirely within a building) for that AI Group for each AI Plan.  It may be possible to paint the same location in multiple plans (I've not tried), but you do seem to need two plans to trigger the placement mechanism.  When deploying the units I dump these suicide bombers and their IEDs in a corner of the map, so when I test the game in Author Mode I should see them jump to one of the possible set-up locations as I press go (only the IEDs assigned to the AI Group move, others that are not assigned can be placed normally).  With a bit of scripting you can move the triggerman out of the 'booby-trapped' building, but getting him a guaranteed LOS back to his bombs once he moves out of his starting location can be tricky.

Note you don't have to use IEDs from the same triggerman, in one of my test scenarios I've added all the Huge IEDs from several (four IIRC) triggermen to one 'suicide-bomber'.....He really does go off with a bang!

PS - @sburke  When you opened Ashsh al-Dababir in the editor you will probably have noticed one building that was very seriously rigged indeed.....That is a legacy of the testing described above (in the simplified single-plan version currently available).  In the multi-plan variant, those IEDs and their triggerman bounced between one of three locations according to which AI plan you were on.  Sadly I just didn't have the AI Group slots to make it viable and a full multi-plan variant would have required some major rejigging of the secret objectives (and probably a slightly bigger map).  When I do eventually remake it in CM:SF II, I'll have an awful lot of options!  :ph34r:

PPS - IED hunting.....A 3x3 tile 'Hidden Objective' with the IED in the centre tile might work for this.....It's an all or nothing thing, you find the location, you know there's an IED there, even though you will never see it.  Not entirely satisfactory, but it's a thought.

FWIW

Wow, just a lot of good information and ideas in this post.  I'm really looking forward to CMSF2.  +1

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