Snipers

[jonPhillips]

Originally posted this in the CMRT forum, but it’s relevant to all CM titles.

I’ve been reading the memoirs of Sepp Allerberger (Sniper on the Eastern Front by Albrecht Wacker) and it’s frequently mentioned how leaders were targeted to break up attacks and disrupt defences. This seems to have been common practice amongst snipers of all nationalities and is perfectly logical behaviour.

Does anyone have any information (whether anecdotal, or otherwise...) about how Snipers function within the game? Specifically, do they actively target leaders when firing at units? If left to select their own targets, will they fire on HQ units before targeting subordinate units?

Any game tips for using them when attacking would be appreciated too - I always find them incredibly difficult to move into useful positions without them getting shot to bits, whilst if moved to target a heavily suppressed unit, enough damage has usually already been done.

[c3k]

Yeah, snipers can be hard to use. This game usually involves dynamic movement by large forces. That's not a good environment for a sniper.

It does seem like snipers do target high value targets. I have not run a test, though: that's just how it seems to me.

[George MC]

Like @c3k I can confirm I've observed snipers targetting high-value targets such as officers and NCOs (small unit leaders) and vehicle commanders.I have seen a sniper in game stop an attacking Soviet infantry company by taking out all the squad and platoon commanders (I saw this by looking at the body count post game).

The challenge is finding the best position for them to engage and kill without being spotted and shot to bits in return...They work better if pre-placed and hiding up in good cover with good LOF. Hard to do when the enemy has possible 'eyes on' but easier at the set-up phase in a scenario.

Try using 'slow' (where they crawl) if you have to get them into a position where the enemy may have LOS/LOF to?

[Xorg_Xalargsky]

@jonPhillipsHmm... This seems like something that should and could be tested... I've got some hours to kill before work, I'll try to jerry-rig something.

[Sgt.Squarehead]

Don't forget the modern titles.....Thermal imaging will change everything. 

[A Canadian Cat]

I also try to locate them at least some distance away from other units. Nothing sucks more than the MG team in the fourth floor drawing the ire of something big and nasty and having the sniper team on the fifth floor pay the ultimate price.

[Xorg_Xalargsky]

Just performed a basic test and it seems a sniper's target is picked somewhat randomly.

[jonPhillips]

7 hours ago, Xorg_Xalargsky said:

Just performed a basic test and it seems a sniper's target is picked somewhat randomly.

Interesting - how did you setup and run the test?

[Xorg_Xalargsky]

Oh, sorry, I didn't go into details because my findings were somewhat disappointing.

 

I setup 20 or so clear firing lanes, ~500 meters long and ~32 meters wide. On one end of each was an elite German sniper, on the other was the 1st squad from a Soviet SMG platoon lined against a wire fence (so they are all upright and visible, they each have a platoon leader and a squad leader).

I had the test running for a few turns and I counted the casualties by rank. I had my data on a whiteboard so now it's all erased, but I found that ranks became casualties at un-natural rate.

Now, this was a simple test and already I can see a few ways it could be improved. For example, maybe add a captain-level officier to the mix as they are more visually distinctive, maybe reduce the range, maybe use other snipers (even with Excellent equipment quality, some German snipers end up with the low-powered scope with the K98K)...

Edited October 19, 2017 by Xorg_Xalargsky

[jonPhillips]

22 hours ago, Xorg_Xalargsky said:

Oh, sorry, I didn't go into details because my findings were somewhat disappointing.

 

I setup 20 or so clear firing lanes, ~500 meters long and ~32 meters wide. On one end of each was an elite German sniper, on the other was the 1st squad from a Soviet SMG platoon lined against a wire fence (so they are all upright and visible, they each have a platoon leader and a squad leader).

I had the test running for a few turns and I counted the casualties by rank. I had my data on a whiteboard so now it's all erased, but I found that ranks became casualties at un-natural rate.

Now, this was a simple test and already I can see a few ways it could be improved. For example, maybe add a captain-level officier to the mix as they are more visually distinctive, maybe reduce the range, maybe use other snipers (even with Excellent equipment quality, some German snipers end up with the low-powered scope with the K98K)...

Good info, thanks for posting

[chuckdyke]

On 10/18/2017 at 4:24 PM, jonPhillips said:

Originally posted this in the CMRT forum, but it’s relevant to all CM titles.

I’ve been reading the memoirs of Sepp Allerberger (Sniper on the Eastern Front by Albrecht Wacker) and it’s frequently mentioned how leaders were targeted to break up attacks and disrupt defences. This seems to have been common practice amongst snipers of all nationalities and is perfectly logical behaviour.

Does anyone have any information (whether anecdotal, or otherwise...) about how Snipers function within the game? Specifically, do they actively target leaders when firing at units? If left to select their own targets, will they fire on HQ units before targeting subordinate units?

Any game tips for using them when attacking would be appreciated too - I always find them incredibly difficult to move into useful positions without them getting shot to bits, whilst if moved to target a heavily suppressed unit, enough damage has usually already been done.

Terribly late because I am a new member. Masking introduce your sniper during an artillery barrage. Or when the battle is in full swing. First of all use your sniper as a spotter that is what he is doing most of the time. Insert him among foliage and not on the edge, shadows from the shadow through a shadow works in real life. In the game don't put him in a house. You can't knock a few bricks out remove a roof tile etc. Keyhole him when he can see plenty, he can be spotted by plenty. 

[Bulletpoint]

On 10/18/2017 at 10:24 AM, jonPhillips said:

Any game tips for using them when attacking would be appreciated too - I always find them incredibly difficult to move into useful positions without them getting shot to bits

The trick is to make sure you engage at long range (600m+) against a limited amount of enemy troops, and plan out your covered route of retreat after you open fire. Don't stay in the same place; your opponent will spot you or at least quickly get an idea of where you're shooting from.

Edit: Just realised you're asking about using them when attacking, not being attacked. I doubt snipers are useful in the attack role.

Edited February 2, 2021 by Bulletpoint

[Lethaface]

2 hours ago, Bulletpoint said:

The trick is to make sure you engage at long range (600m+) against a limited amount of enemy troops, and plan out your covered route of retreat after you open fire. Don't stay in the same place; your opponent will spot you or at least quickly get an idea of where you're shooting from.

Edit: Just realised you're asking about using them when attacking, not being attacked. I doubt snipers are useful in the attack role.

They are excellent doing recon on the attack (or better said: observation over key area's from concealed positions), can be used to provide overwatch and or put fires on (preferably isolated) enemy crew served weapons or sentries, HQs, etc. During the actual attack they can continue in this role and or join the firefight directly, although I usually don't use them as a manuever element ;-).

[Vergeltungswaffe]

Since the patch changing behavior under fire recently, I seen snipers/sharpshooters become more effective from buildings.

Had a sniper in an FI pbem get 11 kills without ever displacing or being killed or wounded recently. Nice change from previous typical results.

[Sgt.Squarehead]

Just watched a brief duel between two Uncon Fighter Sniper Teams plus a Three Man Sniper Group (all Veteran with Extreme or Fanatic morale) in the upper floors of buildings and a pair of unbuttoned T-55 Tanks.....The tanks actually fired the first shots (when the snipers revealed themself by shooting at something else), but they still came off second best! 

 

Edited February 2, 2021 by Sgt.Squarehead