tanks Tank tactics: why the regression?

[JoMac]

47 minutes ago, Combatintman said:

Can we stop wielding the 'unrealistic stick' at the RT mode of play because pauses are allowed? Neither of the play modes are realistic yet I very infrequently see posts hitting WEGO with the 'unrealistic stick' for having three phase turns or the ability to endlessly replay turns from every angle, pausing the replay when a round strikes and then rewinding and pausing to follow the tracer back to the point of origin.

It is a game not real combat.

Wow..! Your a little Combative Man, aren't you :-)

Yes, we all know it's just a Game, but will still like to point out things from time to time, and keep the boards busy...

Edited September 10, 2018 by JoMc67

[Bulletpoint]

10 hours ago, Combatintman said:

Neither of the play modes are realistic yet I very infrequently see posts hitting WEGO with the 'unrealistic stick' for having three phase turns or the ability to endlessly replay turns from every angle, pausing the replay when a round strikes and then rewinding and pausing to follow the tracer back to the point of origin.

We sort of agree, but you're only one dude with one set of eyes. In reality, troops notice and react to all sorts of things even if the commander is looking the other way or on the phone with B Company.

The game actually limits what you can see in the replay. If nobody spots incoming rounds, you can rewind and replay all you like, you won't see anything. Sometimes, you can trace an enemy AT shell from the firing point till impact, sometimes it only becomes visible just before it hits.

WeGo makes the game more realistic by allowing you to play all the different roles of leadership at the same time. The most unrealistic part of WeGo is that you can fly around the battlefield and locate weapons firing by their sound. 

[Michael Emrys]

1 hour ago, Bulletpoint said:

The most unrealistic part of WeGo is that you can fly around the battlefield and locate weapons firing by their sound. 

I admit to doing this the first year or two after BN came out, but I hardly ever do it any more. It's time-consuming and I always feel a little guilty when I do it. But, y'know, sometimes it's the only way to locate that pesky mortar/AT gun/Inf gun that's killing your guys.

Michael

[Bulletpoint]

53 minutes ago, Michael Emrys said:

I admit to doing this the first year or two after BN came out, but I hardly ever do it any more. It's time-consuming and I always feel a little guilty when I do it. But, y'know, sometimes it's the only way to locate that pesky mortar/AT gun/Inf gun that's killing your guys.

Yeah, it's really tempting to do it, but I also try not to! Sometimes I do it against the computer, but never against a human opponent. Rather lose the game than to win that way.

[Sgt.Squarehead]

14 hours ago, JoMc67 said:

Wow..! Your a little Combative Man, aren't you :-)

Yes, we all know it's just a Game, but will still like to point out things from time to time, and keep the boards busy...

Once you've contributed half as much to CM as @Combatintman has, we might start taking your posts half as seriously. 

Until then.....  

[A Canadian Cat]

4 hours ago, Michael Emrys said:

sometimes it's the only way to locate that pesky mortar/AT gun/Inf gun that's killing your guys.

/s What AT guns are hard to spot. That's terrible, the game is broken, how can anyone play this. Oh wait, sorry wrong complaint I was thinking you said AT guns are too easy to spot.

[MOS:96B2P]

1 hour ago, IanL said:

Oh wait, sorry wrong complaint I was thinking you said AT guns are too easy to spot.  

  I see what you did there     

[Lethaface]

I'm with 'combative man' here

I don't see the merit of artificially limiting the pauses to 15 , 30 , 45 secs and so forth for RT. Basically that's like WEGO with a twist. I'm personally not against adding options for WEGO games which allow you to do that (although also not on my wishlist). But why limit RT? 
You can already limit yourself by just hitting the pause button according to the rules you make up. I think it's a bad idea to force those rules upon every RT game.

[Erwin]

If one of the options is to just let RT run as it does now, there is no reason not to provide extra options.  If they don't create other problems, more options are good on principle.

[Combatintman]

3 hours ago, Erwin said:

If one of the options is to just let RT run as it does now, there is no reason not to provide extra options.  If they don't create other problems, more options are good on principle.

Apart from ...

Where's the patch?

When's the CMFI module coming out?

Where's the CMSF2 Demo?

When will CMSF2 be released?

Why doesn't Steve provide developer updates?

[Bulletpoint]

20 minutes ago, Combatintman said:

3 hours ago, Erwin said:

If one of the options is to just let RT run as it does now, there is no reason not to provide extra options.  If they don't create other problems, more options are good on principle.

Apart from ...

Where's the patch?

When's the CMFI module coming out?

Where's the CMSF2 Demo?

When will CMSF2 be released?

Why doesn't Steve provide developer updates?

 

So, where's Steve's new developer update with news about the extra options in the patch for CMSF2??

[Combatintman]

19 minutes ago, Bulletpoint said:

 

So, where's Steve's new developer update with news about the extra options in the patch for CMSF2??

He's busy adding 15 second pauses to RT play obviously 

[Duckman]

On 9/11/2018 at 12:21 AM, Combatintman said:

Can we stop wielding the 'unrealistic stick' at the RT mode of play because pauses are allowed? Neither of the play modes are realistic yet I very infrequently see posts hitting WEGO with the 'unrealistic stick' for having three phase turns or the ability to endlessly replay turns from every angle, pausing the replay when a round strikes and then rewinding and pausing to follow the tracer back to the point of origin.

It is a game not real combat.

I order you to stop making sense!

[DerKommissar]

Here's the way I play CM, this is the way to get the best experience: 

1. Play RT without pause.

2. Turn off your screen.

3. Call your mates.

4. Make them play PBEM company leaders.

5. Make them play battlefield sounds at 11.

6. Have them report their situation to you. Give them your orders.

7. Somebody gets shot in-game? Hit in the head with a hammer.

8. Rinse and repeat until you're in the hospital.

9. Give yourself a medal.

[Erwin]

14 hours ago, Erwin said:

If they don't create other problems

like excessive programming tasks that delay other releases.  wish folks would actually read posts b4 yielding to kneejerk reactions.  

[Pelican Pal]

On 9/9/2018 at 2:59 AM, Michael Emrys said:

+1. Can't much argue with that as a player. As a historian—albeit an amateur one—I do have a problem with the player having better control of his subordinates than any RL officer could hope to have.

Michael

CM's dichotomy is that while WeGo removes your ability to unrealistically micro units when you are wearing the hat of Platoon commander or above the player is quite often wearing the hat of a Sergeant, Corporal, or even Private. In those cases wego is unsuited to the situation.

At the top of the minute a fireteam spots five tanks and a platoon of infantry crossing a ridge. 9 times out of 10 that fireteam isn't going to sign their own death warrants in reality, but in CM those four men have no conceptual understanding that they are massively outgunned. That Corporal will have to wait an entire minute before telling his fireteam to do anything reasonable like crawl away or hold fire. Instead they'll fire a few rifle rounds before being pulverized. 

An RPG team fires a rocket and then, against all logic, proceed to not move and get plastered by return fire. 

Etc...

Neither WeGo or Real-Time is always realistic or unrealistic. They just happen to have moments where they are the most realistic choice and some where they are not.

[Lethaface]

47 minutes ago, Pelican Pal said:

CM's dichotomy is that while WeGo removes your ability to unrealistically micro units when you are wearing the hat of Platoon commander or above the player is quite often wearing the hat of a Sergeant, Corporal, or even Private. In those cases wego is unsuited to the situation.

At the top of the minute a fireteam spots five tanks and a platoon of infantry crossing a ridge. 9 times out of 10 that fireteam isn't going to sign their own death warrants in reality, but in CM those four men have no conceptual understanding that they are massively outgunned. That Corporal will have to wait an entire minute before telling his fireteam to do anything reasonable like crawl away or hold fire. Instead they'll fire a few rifle rounds before being pulverized. 

An RPG team fires a rocket and then, against all logic, proceed to not move and get plastered by return fire. 

Etc...

Neither WeGo or Real-Time is always realistic or unrealistic. They just happen to have moments where they are the most realistic choice and some where they are not.

Well said.

[Erwin]

4 hours ago, Pelican Pal said:

An RPG team fires a rocket and then, against all logic, proceed to not move and get plastered by return fire. 

This at least has been often discussed as it could be mitigated by a "wait in ambush until you shoot, then scoot" routine.  Good also for snipers.

[Michael Emrys]

On 9/12/2018 at 12:16 PM, Pelican Pal said:

Neither WeGo or Real-Time is always realistic or unrealistic. They just happen to have moments where they are the most realistic choice and some where they are not.

That is so. The solution awaits better AI, and I can't tell you when that might be.

Michael