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MOS:96B2P

4.0 AI Withdraw Orders

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I can't get the new (4.0 Engine) withdraw or Facing orders to work properly.  Most of the time vehicles will stop at their destination order map zone and turn their back on the OpFor.  Then when it is time to withdraw they spin the front hull towards the OpFor, as they are suppose to, and back away.  They seem to want to face their next destination order which means turning their back to the OpFor when the next order is withdraw.  Also the infantry never seem to face the OpFor as they withdraw.  I have tried about everything I can think of.

Facing and withdraw cancel each other out so that didn't work. 

Any adult supervision would be appreciated. 

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Just had a quick look and it's much as you describe.....In my test the tanks moved forward to a sighting position (advance with face) correctly although one did a glamorous little pirouette before settling down, they then rolled forward to open fire (advance with fire), but as in your experience at this point they turned their hulls around to face their next order spots (advance with retreat).  :unsure:

Clearly some more experimentation is required, perhaps adding a face order on the same tile before the retreat order? 

Edited by Sgt.Squarehead

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1 hour ago, Sgt.Squarehead said:

Just had a quick look and it's much as you describe.....In my test the tanks moved forward to a sighting position (advance with face) correctly although one did a glamorous little pirouette before settling down, they then rolled forward to open fire (advance with fire), but as in your experience at this point they turned their hulls around to face their next order spots (advance with retreat).  :unsure:

Clearly some more experimentation is required, perhaps adding a face order on the same tile before the retreat order? 

Well  ........................... I think maybe you paint the Retreat action spot in front of your unit group.  Like on the OpFor tile they are retreating from .................. Still working on it but this is showing some promise................ 

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6 hours ago, MOS:96B2P said:

I think maybe you paint the Retreat action spot in front of your unit group.  Like on the OpFor tile they are retreating from

That's exactly what I did, but they still rotated their hulls as soon as they reached the preceding order location.....'Fire' works fine, 'Face' seems to work OK, but 'Withdraw' is still proving tricky.

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Posted (edited)
On 10/3/2017 at 4:45 AM, MOS:96B2P said:

@cbennett88 :D  I especially like that second photo.  The guy on the away team who was not a main character was going to get whacked.  :lol:

LOL - I was looking for some advice to use withdraw orders and I found this thread.

I laughed a lot. But, if I'm not mistaken, this episode is "obsession" and the three red guys will be killed by a gas cloud. 😀

Edited by ncc1701e

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Posted (edited)

I just ran a quick mini test for both AI retreat and AI face.

For retreat the vehicles popped smoke, backed away and stopped at the designated spot facing the enemy. For AI face, the units proceeded to their destination, stopped and rotated about to face to spot their suppose to face.

Are you putting you retreat spots in the correct place? I initially was confused by that, myself. Also, if you haven't properly timed your AI orders the AI will immediately begin to implement the next orders. So there needs to be some time between your retreat order finishing and your next advance 'begin at' order.

Retreat rest.jpg

Edited by MikeyD

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Yes this is working fine. Thank you. I have just two questions:

1. What Order Type do you recommend during the withdraw between Max Assault, Assault, Advance, Quick and Dash? I think that Advance, Quick and Dash are the three best options. Is the stance important too?

2. I am a bit puzzled by the difference of behavior between armor and infantry. Armor will pop a smoke screen then reverse. Infantry will start moving, pop a small smoke screen in front of them and a bigger one behind them. So I found they are a little exposed to enemy fire. Are they acting following a particular TTP unknown to me?

My setup order

WO94k.jpg

My withdraw order

DYOaX.jpg

Initial position

g5y1W.jpg

Withdraw start: Small screen done by infantry while other squads are moving back and generates additional smokes:

k3RVl.jpg

Vxnmy.jpg

Why using "Print Screen", my CMSF2 screenshots are just awful? 🤔

Thanks

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Off the top of my head - assault and max assault only apply to dismounted units that can be split so I'd rule those two order types out straight away for AI groups containing mounted non-splittable units. Otherwise, I guess it depends how quickly you want the dudes to bug out and/or whether you want them to use their weapons while moving. I've always found the descriptions in the manual to be fairly close to the mark for order type (page 104 of the engine manual). Bottom line though is that you will need to set up a quick test and see how they behave if it is really important to you that they behave in a particular fashion for this move order.

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IIRC I had no issues with retreat and a facing on the last waypoint. Got to check again. Thus far, I´d just used "retreat forward" in a mission and it worked as desired.

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Ah yes, in a scenario I recall I once used a 'retreat in place' AI command - The pink retreat square with no painted movement order. When it hit the time they faced the square, popped smoke, but didn't alter their positions,

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6 hours ago, MikeyD said:

Ah yes, in a scenario I recall I once used a 'retreat in place' AI command - The pink retreat square with no painted movement order. When it hit the time they faced the square, popped smoke, but didn't alter their positions,

One of those neat little tricks that can come in very handy during the right circumstances...thanks for the tip 😁

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A retreat in place followed by a pause of about a minute and a half might be more effective as it gives the smoke screen chance to spread out.....I need to get back to this in the editor and have another mess around.

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2 hours ago, Sgt.Squarehead said:

A retreat in place followed by a pause of about a minute and a half might be more effective as it gives the smoke screen chance to spread out.....

Yepp...

And i can see other uses for this 'retreat in place' trick...for teams to pop smoke for others...in streetfighting for example it could perhaps work nicely if the main body provides suppression and coverfire as a small part of the force moves forward. Ones in place this forward team could pop smoke (retreat in place) to cover the advance of the main body as they move forward....😎

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Posted (edited)

Ahhhh.....Smokescreens!  :ph34r:

If there were one tweak I would bite your arm off for right now it would be the ability to assign a turn number (or even better a start and end time) to the AI Targets list.....God what a difference that would make! 

Please, please @Battlefront.com, if it's possible, make it happen!  ;)

Edited by Sgt.Squarehead

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16 minutes ago, Sgt.Squarehead said:

Ahhhh.....Smokescreens!  :ph34r:

If there were one tweak I would bite your arm off for right now it would be the ability to assign a turn number (or even better a start and end time) to the AI Targets list.....God what a difference that would make! 

Please, please @Battlefront.com, if it's possible, make it happen!  ;)

Yes, yes, yes...give it to me !!!! 😁

This is something i would really like also...some kind of timer...

Do this for XX minutes...wait at this waypoint for XX minutes...the gameclock and triggers that we have now don't allow for this since there is no way of knowing excatelly when each AI order will be carried out as far as the gameclock goes...a certain AI order may be triggered at min 23 or at min 31 for example...the usefullnes of the gameclock as a timer is therefore limited...

I agree with the sgt...please BFC...give us a timer...

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TBH while I do see the utility of your wider idea I'd be happy for the AI just to be able to drop massive lumps of explosive (or clouds of smoke) on a player mid-battle in a predictable fashion (the normal AI Target painted zones for artillery, but with a timing option of some kind).....That alone would make me very happy.

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Quote

I would bite your arm off for right now it would be the ability to assign a turn number (or even better a start and end time) to the AI Targets list.

There is the AI 'area fire' command that you assign a start and end time to, and can be used with on-map mortar teams (but not off-map artillery). Just recently I tried an AI 'area fire in place' command for mortars in a scenario I'm working on. A timed AI order with a painted 'area fire' location but without a painted movement order so the mortars won't pack up and move. I'm 75% sure it works but I need to run additional tests.

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13 minutes ago, MikeyD said:

There is the AI 'area fire' command that you assign a start and end time to, and can be used with on-map mortar teams (but not off-map artillery). Just recently I tried an AI 'area fire in place' command for mortars in a scenario I'm working on. A timed AI order with a painted 'area fire' location but without a painted movement order so the mortars won't pack up and move. I'm 75% sure it works but I need to run additional tests.

The areafire with the on-map mortars is a nice new feature with V.4 but unfortunatelly it is limited to HE and rather low calliber HE at that...when 'timed' smoke or larger caliber HE is desired the area fire feature is of no use currently...

Its a nice step in the right direction but not quite there yet..

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Thanks guys, any comment on my second question?

21 hours ago, ncc1701e said:

2. I am a bit puzzled by the difference of behavior between armor and infantry. Armor will pop a smoke screen then reverse. Infantry will start moving, pop a small smoke screen in front of them and a bigger one behind them. So I found they are a little exposed to enemy fire. Are they acting following a particular TTP unknown to me?

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also to remind of wind strength and direction for any AIP smoke screen usage. If nothing else is of concern for a mission design, then consider setting this correctly just for intended AIP smoke screens. If setting incorrectly, it might benefit more the opposing player, with AIP units beeing revealed and supporting units LOF cut off and such.

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On 4/8/2019 at 10:57 AM, RepsolCBR said:

Yepp...

And i can see other uses for this 'retreat in place' trick...for teams to pop smoke for others...in streetfighting for example it could perhaps work nicely if the main body provides suppression and coverfire as a small part of the force moves forward. Ones in place this forward team could pop smoke (retreat in place) to cover the advance of the main body as they move forward....😎

VERY true! Finally AI can hide an assault! 

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