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I have stumbled on something that doest seem right. In the first scenario of the TF 3-69 campaign, the HQs show three man teams in the Unit Info Panel of the UI. I am guessing that that part is probably correct. But when you click on the units themselves, six men are highlighted. This is true for all the Recon HQs in the scenario but not for regular inf. HQs, which always show the same number of men as the Unit Info Panel. I don't know how widespread this phenomenon is or if it is only confined to Black Sea. I doubt that it is intentional.

Just to check to make sure this wasn't something peculiar to my installation, I uninstalled the game and installed a fresh copy and the problem persisted.

Michael

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Toss a screenshot up. (Traveling atm.) The HQ teams would be in different columns in the UI, but the HQ info in the UI blocks it. 

At least, that's how I remember it. I saw this a year+ ago and tossed it up the chain to get fixed and had it explained to me. Or, I'm totally misremembering how it happened. If so, I blame the beer and the aging process. ;)

Or, tell me exactly what type of HQ you're talking about and I'll see if I can find it and explain it. 

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2 hours ago, c3k said:

Or, tell me exactly what type of HQ you're talking about and I'll see if I can find it and explain it. 

The recon HQs that appear in the first scenario of the TF 3-69 campaign. As I stated at the outset of this thread, there was no problem with normal mech inf HQs.

Michael

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Well, it would be helpful if you gave me a screenshot and/or listed the command relationship of the unit you're questioning. Because I opened TF 3-69 on my weak laptop, and it starts with a recon platoon on map. The HQ has one man. He is listed correctly as one man in every instance of the UI that I could think to look. So...if you could toss a screenshot up, including the entire UI, I could maybe dig into this and see if it's a bug (in which case I'll report it (again)), or I'll be able to explain/describe what's going on.

I don't have time to play through the TF 3-69 battle to try to find what you're describing. As it is, I've tried to...and obviously don't see what you're seeing.

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2 hours ago, c3k said:

I don't have time to play through the TF 3-69 battle to try to find what you're describing.

There's a very easy way to see it. Call up Menus and click on Ceasefire. When that page comes up, click on Review Map. There are several Recon HQs on the map. If you click on one, the UI will show three men, but if you move the camera up close you will see six highlighted on the screen. Is that clear enough?

Michael

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I see what you're talking about--it's the Russian AI forces, not the US forces that the player controls in the Campaign, right? I think this is, as @c3k says, a result of the way the UI works for the odd case of multi-Team HQs, combined with the limitations of the "Review Map" mode after the game is over: A few Russian HQs, like these, have multiple teams, and they can split like rifle squads. Since they're HQs, during play you can also click the blue "HQ" button in the lower right-hand corner of the team display to show the HQ display with the flag and the Units and Formations under their command. When you have this option toggled on, it covers up the second Team in the UI. The catch is that in the post-game "Review Map" mode, the HQ option is *always* selected, and you can't unselect it. You also can't see the status text (in the lower left-hand corner of the screen) that tells you what each soldier is doing, because in Review Map mode it's replaced by the "Combat Victories" scoreboard showing how many casualties they've infliected. So it covers up one of the teams and you don't know those men are there unless you actually go and look for them.

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Gen'l L, thanks.

Michael, it would've been simpler if you'd said RUSSIAN units. I'm not trying to start something with you, but you never answered my questions seeking clarification. A screenshot would've made it glaringly obvious that you were talking about Russian units. Listing the unit's formation would have done the same. Assumptions and all that. Shrug.The TF campaign is fought from the blue side. And, it starts with on-map blue recon units. As Gen'l L. has described, it's a function of the UI for the HQ and having multiple team lists.

Edited by c3k

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15 hours ago, c3k said:

Michael, it would've been simpler if you'd said RUSSIAN units.

Sorry about that. As you say, assumptions...

BTW, the phenomenon can be observed even at the very beginning of the scenario before play has begun. What puzzles me at the moment is why this only occurs with Recon HQs. I guess it may have something to do with what Liederkranz says about them and only them having multi-team HQs.

Michael

Edited by Michael Emrys

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1 hour ago, Michael Emrys said:

So...the bottom line for me is, whether the correct strength for the Russian Recon HQs is three or six, the Unit Info Screen and the representation on the map need to be brought into congruity.

Michael

 I was going to go into a 3,000 word description of what's going on, but then I remembered that picture is worth a thousand words. I've posted three of them. The last two are swapped. Look at them in order: 1, 3, then 2.

If this doesn't clear it up, let me know.

Ken

Recon HQ 01.jpg

Recon HQ 03.jpg

Recon HQ 02.jpg

Edited by c3k

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Well, they're only hidden if you don't know about the HQ button. Some folks think it's a label. It's most useful with AFV HQs. It opens up a lot of the UI. Glad it helped.

(Hidden Easter egg: if you double-click the HQ button twice (4 clicks total) in rhythm with a Frank Sousa march (I forget which one), the HQ releases a "psionic blast" which causes all enemy units within a certain radius (dependent upon the HQ's soft-factors) to surrender. It can be VERY powerful. The two double-clicks can be a bitch to get right, though.)

Ken

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1 hour ago, Michael Emrys said:

Like, why hide the extra three men, since they are supposed to be there anyway?

I imagine the reason the other three men are hidden is that when BFC was originally designing CMx2 they probably didn't anticipate any HQs with more than one Team. I believe that's a new feature with CMBS? And there just isn't space in the UI for 2 Teams and the HQ panel.

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18 hours ago, c3k said:

(Hidden Easter egg: if you double-click the HQ button twice (4 clicks total) in rhythm with a Frank Sousa march (I forget which one), the HQ releases a "psionic blast" which causes all enemy units within a certain radius (dependent upon the HQ's soft-factors) to surrender. It can be VERY powerful. The two double-clicks can be a bitch to get right, though.)

Yes, just getting the double click can be challenging:

let alone quadruple click.

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^^^

LOL. It was something like that which allowed me stumble onto the Easter egg. I only used it a few times. And only once in a pbem. I still feel a little dirty about that, but a win is a win.

:)

Edited to add: That was how I beat @sublime in the one pbem we played. His human wave assaults almost worked...until I unleashed the psionic blast. Totally gutted his offense. Feels good to get that off my chest. ;)

Edited by c3k

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19 hours ago, c3k said:

Well, they're only hidden if you don't know about the HQ button. Some folks think it's a label. It's most useful with AFV HQs. It opens up a lot of the UI. Glad it helped.

Well, it hasn't yet. I went looking for it yesterday and it just wasn't to be found. Fortunately for me this is a trivial issue since I don't play the Russians normally. I only brought the topic up out of a sense of duty, reporting something I had observed that might be of moment to some players.

:)

Michael

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That button? It's only accessible/turned on DURING a game, not in the AAR screen. So, if it's the enemy, yeah, you'll never see the UI list for team 2 or team 3 (if an HQ even has a third team?). If it's YOUR guys, then you can see all your guys by pressing it. 

Other than HQs, it also helps with tanks.

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What I did yesterday was to start a QB as the Russians and bought a recon battalion (on the light vehicles). And though I checked every HQ I could find in the battalion, I found nary a button. Maybe it's just my karma...

Michael

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That doesn't sound right. My screenshots show what to click. The bottom-most screenie, (which was the SECOND picture I posted, shrug), shows what to click to open up the window to expose the extra teams.

I'll go click around in a few.

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13 hours ago, Michael Emrys said:

What I did yesterday was to start a QB as the Russians and bought a recon battalion (on the light vehicles). And though I checked every HQ I could find in the battalion, I found nary a button. Maybe it's just my karma...

Michael

I just did the same. A QB, and the I selected the Russian forces. I chose a Reconnaissance Battalion (new). The Batt HQ only has 4 men, in one team. No HQ icon/button on their UI. The two company HQs both have the HQ icon/button. The two company HQs have 6 men, divided into two three-man teams. You need to press the red HQ button to see them. Once you see all the men, press the blue HQ button to get the HQ UI back in place. See my screenies, above.

As well, all the platoon HQs do the same: they are made up of two teams, each of three men.

Only the Batt HQ does NOT have the HQ button...because it is not needed. There is nothing "hidden" behind it.

Try again...or post a screenie.

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Okay, I gave it one last go and this time everything worked as you describe. Ta-dah! Thank you. I do note however that this does not work when you are in a Ceasefire screen, which was the source of my original puzzlement.

Michael

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14 hours ago, Michael Emrys said:

Okay, I gave it one last go and this time everything worked as you describe. Ta-dah! Thank you. I do note however that this does not work when you are in a Ceasefire screen, which was the source of my original puzzlement.

Michael

Hmmm. I guess that means that you leave some of the enemy alive at the end of your battles? ;)

Glad it's sorted.

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