For those that complain about gun damage...

[Thewood1]

From Steel Beasts forums:

http://www.steelbeasts.com/topic/11688-1973-war-idf-damaged-tank-survey/

Its interesting how many (i think its over 50%) resulted in gun damage.  A lot of gun/gun barrel hots also.

[Vanir Ausf B]

Interesting. Thanks!

[cool breeze]

I think people just feel they are over modelled cause it feels bad to have that big tank n big gun not work

[Apocal]

I can't read Hebrew and the post isn't clear on the issue but is the report using the term "damage" as as any sort of degradation in the individual gun subsystems or actual F-kills as a result of said damage?

[Thewood1]

I am assuming it is as its translated...damage.  The tone of the discussion says to me if its damaged enough to send back to a central depot, it was damaged enough to not be functioning.  Of course you have some with multiple hits.  

With that said, in CM I get gun hits that seem to have no effect.  The point of the post is there have been several posts about how gun hits are way too frequent in all CM2 forums.  Just pointing that in real life, they seem more common than I thought.

btw, if you dig far enough back in the SB forums, there was a post (I think from the same guy) about how many spare barrels the IDF went through in the later IDF wars.  It was mostly from hits on barrels, not wear.

[John Kettler]

Thewood1,

Believe the gun hit numbers are considerably distorted. Here's why. On the Syrian front, from what I've read of the fighting, the IDF was principally defending in place, with the tanks making full use of tank ramps from prepared positions. Consequently, there was precious little to shoot at for much of the fighting there but IDF tank turrets, and I can see no way that wouldn't significantly affect the gun hit numbers, especially with that arena of battle forming a bit over half of the category under consideration. Only after the Syrian Army had been shattered, and its air defenses crushed by innovative SEAD tactics, was the IAF's revitalized CAS (US sent aircraft parts, lots of planes and scads of ordnance to replace crippling losses early in the Yom Kippur War) able to wreak its customary havoc and pave the way for the armored dash practically to Damascus. Avigdor Kahalani was an IDF tank battalion commander on the Golan, and his book, Heights of Courage, is a great read.

Regards,

John Kettler

 

[Thewood1]

That is a guess at best.  You still have the Sinai front.  Take out every Golan tank loss and its still high.  You don't have to go into detail on the battle.  You really like to type I guess.

Maybe your response can lay out the entire Sinai battle too.

[Sgt.Squarehead]

Given that fighting from a hull-down position is deemed 'best-practice' I don't find this at all surprising.

[Thewood1]

Not surprising, but didn't need a paragraph to shiw he knows how to google Golan Heights.  Nothing is simple with him.

[John Kettler]

Thewood1,

If I simply state matters concisely, I get jumped on because "it's just Kettler talking." Consequently, I now come in armed with everything I deem relevant to provide a factual basis for the things I say, nuanced appropriately as well. Can't do that in one sentence. I could, I suppose, do Reagan type briefings for you. You'll have to imagine the simple graphics.

IDF Prepared Defense on Golan

*Tank

*Tank Ramp

*Only Turret Exposed When Firing

*Turret Has Gun

* Gun Gets Hit A Lot When Turret Hit

Result = Distorted Overall Gun Hit Percentage. Syrian Front Yielded >0.5 IDF Damaged Tanks = Big Statistical Driver

Combat Dynamics Changed After Syrian Army Broken & IDF Tanks No Longer Static

Executive Summary

Gun hits were high frequency occurrences when fighting from tank ramps on the Golan. Most fighting in Syria was done that way. This distorts the overall frequency of gun hits reported by the IDF.

 

Regards,

John Kettler