Invulnerable jeep - now with video

[JoMac]

If the Jeep was being fired upon by MG from the side, then does the bullets appear hitting the Driver or Center Mass of Jeep (bullets hittng center of Door (for example) ?

Also, if Jeep is fired upon at the rear...Does the Bullets hit the Cabin where the Driver is or hit the rear cargo area ?

Edited July 23, 2017 by JoMc67

[Sgt.Squarehead]

Haven't you guys seen this:

Jeep crews are bullet-proof! 

[Vanir Ausf B]

2 hours ago, Bulletpoint said:

I think it's quite obvious from the video that they aim exactly for the driver, but that all the bullets magically get stopped by the windshield.

Doesn't really matter. It's the layer of abstraction magically stopping the bullets, not the windshield.

[JoMac]

2 hours ago, Vanir Ausf B said:

Doesn't really matter. It's the layer of abstraction magically stopping the bullets, not the windshield.

Ahh, what I figured as well, and it's that abstraction we see...Sounds Good to me.

 

Edited July 23, 2017 by JoMc67

[Bulletpoint]

10 hours ago, Vanir Ausf B said:

Doesn't really matter. It's the layer of abstraction magically stopping the bullets, not the windshield.

Maybe the layer of abstraction is a bit too thick in this case? He survives several magazines worth of MG ammo at 20 m range.

[Vanir Ausf B]

1 hour ago, Bulletpoint said:

Maybe the layer of abstraction is a bit too thick in this case?

I have already stated that I don't think so and why, so we will have to agree to disagree.

Edited July 24, 2017 by Vanir Ausf B

[Panzer_Freak]

Old topic, but here is another example when the hits seemingly do not affect the vehicle at all. In the turn after this one, the vehicle kept retreating and went behind a knoll.

 

MG42 team firing from about 250 meters distance.

 

 

[Bulletpoint]

3 hours ago, Panzer_Freak said:

Old topic, but here is another example when the hits seemingly do not affect the vehicle at all. In the turn after this one, the vehicle kept retreating and went behind a knoll.

 

MG42 team firing from about 250 meters distance.

 

 

Back in 2017 when I tested this, I found that it's the magical bulletproof windshield that protects the passengers.

Jeeps with the windshield down were killed extremely fast by MG fire, but when the windshield was up, they survived a very long time unless they backed off and turned their side to the firer.

There's of course also the question of how many MG bullets it would take to knock out the engine from the front.

Edited October 7, 2019 by Bulletpoint

[rocketman]

3 hours ago, Bulletpoint said:

Back in 2017 when I tested this, I found that it's the magical bulletproof windshield that protects the passengers.

Jeeps with the windshield down were killed extremely fast by MG fire, but when the windshield was up, they survived a very long time unless they backed off and turned their side to the firer.

There's of course also the question of how many MG bullets it would take to knock out the engine from the front.

Maybe the windshield acts like the gun shield on German halftracks?

I know nothing about engines but I guess it will take several hits to make it stop completely and it will run, albeit poorly, until then.

[A Canadian Cat]

Interesting. How about this: could it be there is too much protection from straight head on? I have not gone back to the earlier posts from @Bulletpoint to see if that matches up. Would anyone be willing to create a test scenario and have few situations where a jeep drives straight at an MG and another one drives across the field of fire of an MG.

[Bulletpoint]

10 minutes ago, IanL said:

Interesting. How about this: could it be there is too much protection from straight head on? I have not gone back to the earlier posts from @Bulletpoint to see if that matches up. Would anyone be willing to create a test scenario and have few situations where a jeep drives straight at an MG and another one drives across the field of fire of an MG.

I recommend you just set up two jeeps, one with the windscreen up, the other with it down, and then shoot at them from the front. When I tested it, the one with the windscreen up survived way longer than the other one. Because the windscreen is bulletproof.

[A Canadian Cat]

17 minutes ago, Bulletpoint said:

I recommend you just set up two jeeps, one with the windscreen up, the other with it down, and then shoot at them from the front. When I tested it, the one with the windscreen up survived way longer than the other one. Because the windscreen is bulletproof.

You know I never noticed up and down windshields really but now that you mention it there are some with it up and some with it down. Is that random? Sadly I'll have to put this on my list of stuff to get to when I have free time - hence my ask for someone else to create a test.

[Bulletpoint]

10 minutes ago, IanL said:

You know I never noticed up and down windshields really but now that you mention it there are some with it up and some with it down. Is that random? Sadly I'll have to put this on my list of stuff to get to when I have free time - hence my ask for someone else to create a test.

I believe it's random. A bit like some tanks get sandbags on the front, and some don't.

[Panzer_Freak]

On 10/7/2019 at 7:30 PM, IanL said:

Interesting. How about this: could it be there is too much protection from straight head on? I have not gone back to the earlier posts from @Bulletpoint to see if that matches up. Would anyone be willing to create a test scenario and have few situations where a jeep drives straight at an MG and another one drives across the field of fire of an MG.

I will set up a test in the near future. I am also very interested how much damage engine takes. I counted 20+ hits to the engine compartment and the jeep kept retreating behind the knoll in the turn after. A engine would for sure be totally screwed after that much punishment. In a CMRT-game a while ago I noticed the same thing. One of my trucks tog alot of hits to the engine, no damage at all. Damage indicator was still green, not even yellow.

[Wicky]

Seemed to a field mod

Edited October 9, 2019 by Wicky

[Bulletpoint]

19 hours ago, Panzer_Freak said:

I will set up a test in the near future. I am also very interested how much damage engine takes.

I've done a test and sent the scenario to Ian, but that is only testing for how protected the passengers are. It would be great if you could set up a test to show if the engine/hull is too well protected too.

[quakerparrot67]

On 10/7/2019 at 6:03 AM, Bulletpoint said:

Back in 2017 when I tested this, I found that it's the magical bulletproof windshield that protects the passengers.

Jeeps with the windshield down were killed extremely fast by MG fire, but when the windshield was up, they survived a very long time unless they backed off and turned their side to the firer.

There's of course also the question of how many MG bullets it would take to knock out the engine from the front.

  could it have something to do with  northern europe    sas  jeeps having armor glass  shields for the driver and gun mounts,   with possible  inadvertent  in-game crossover to normal jeeps ?  ( not sure if that makes sense, but it's a thought...)

 

cheers,

rob

[Erwin]

They look like command vehicles.  Can see a radio in the back in pic 1.  Up armored to protect a CO?

[Bulletpoint]

9 hours ago, quakerparrot67 said:

  could it have something to do with  northern europe    sas  jeeps having armor glass  shields for the driver and gun mounts,   with possible  inadvertent  in-game crossover to normal jeeps ?  ( not sure if that makes sense, but it's a thought...)

I think it's more likely that either it's just somebody inputting the wrong protectiuon value for glass, or that the glass material was carried over from a CMSF1 hummvee.

 

45 minutes ago, Erwin said:

They look like command vehicles.  Can see a radio in the back in pic 1.  Up armored to protect a CO?

It seems to happen with all kinds of jeeps. I have not been able to find any evidence of bulletproof glass used in jeeps in WW2.

 

@IanL is on the case, and I'm looking forward to hear his conclusions based on the test scenario I sent him.

[domfluff]

One thing that I'd like to be considered with any tests are precisely what path incoming rounds are taking.

With a glass windshield I'd expect to see multiple penetrating hits that do nothing, since some rounds will go through the windshield and then into the thin air (since there's not going to be the concept of glass shattering in CM, it's likely to be modelled as a thin layer of "armour")

If there are repeatable differences between glass-up and glass-down, that's indicative as well, but it's worth considering trajectory too - windshield up will have more "penetrations", but penetrations which don't actually hit anything are meaningless.

[slysniper]

Well, add this to the concept, I think it was common practice in WWII for all jeeps in combat areas to remove the glass. No it had no bullet stopping capabilities, but was causing nasty injuries, so it was directed by high command for units to remove the glass.

The photo's above with some having armored plates installed looks like a typical field modified addition. Many units did such modifications to equipment. ( so personally I think of it as just that as to what is in game, A jeep that has been modified with some steel plates that can deflect small arms fire. )

So I think the test should be with a heavy MG at closer ranges, no light steel plates would do much against that, it would shred right through that steel.

[Bulletpoint]

On 10/11/2019 at 11:55 AM, domfluff said:

With a glass windshield I'd expect to see multiple penetrating hits that do nothing, since some rounds will go through the windshield and then into the thin air

Problem being that the game shows "penetration", meaning the bullet should be going straight through, but in fact the bullet doesn't continue.

[MikeyD]

I had a coworker long ago who, every time he went hunting up in Alaska, would end his visit by giving the old car a shotgun blast in a different place. It was none the worse for it, though he did get stopped by inquisitive traffic police an awful lot.

[Michael Emrys]

Reading this thread reminds me of the indestructible Kubelwagen that I encountered in the scenario "Out on a Limb". Although struck perhaps by a hundred or two bullets fired at close range from various angles, no harm befell it until the driver tried to dismount, a fatal mistake.

I also recall seeing quite a number of photos of Jeeps with their windshields folded down. Now I wonder if that was to avoid flying shards of glass. It also occurs to me that folding it down would also avoid a shiny reflection to a possible observer.

Michael

[Michael Emrys]

8 hours ago, MikeyD said:

I had a coworker long ago who, every time he went hunting up in Alaska, would end his visit by giving the old car a shotgun blast in a different place. It was none the worse for it, though he did get stopped by inquisitive traffic police an awful lot.

Rather eccentric behavior, wouldn't you say? I wonder what his purpose was in doing that. Was it so he could claim that he did in fact manage to shoot something?

Michael