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Apocal

Buttoned tanks still possess telepathy.

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1 minute ago, Vanir Ausf B said:

When I stated earlier that tanks cannot hear infantry you referenced this test as a counterpoint.

Yeah, that was before I knew that the contact markers weren't necessarily sound contacts. I still don't know how to differentiate them from visual or shared.

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4 hours ago, Apocal said:

The weird thing is that the Panthers apparently have sound (since they can't see over the berms) contacts on each other at the beginning of the turn, despite being buttoned.

You need to stop saying the words "sound contact" because these things don't specifically exist anymore.
Contacts are contacts, and there is no specific provision as to exactly how a unit gains a contact, and there is no specific delineation as to the type of contact.

Specific sound contacts existed in CMx1, and were literally labeled 'Sound Contact', however that hasn't been a thing since CMx2 was first created.
You are looking at the problem with blinkers on. Stop thinking in terms of sound.

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Meh. Close assaults are messy; sometimes they go right, sometimes they go tits up. "God" spotting tanks is a preposterous claim with a dearth of evidence to support it.

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On 7/12/2017 at 6:17 AM, SLIM said:

You need to stop saying the words "sound contact" because these things don't specifically exist anymore.
Contacts are contacts, and there is no specific provision as to exactly how a unit gains a contact, and there is no specific delineation as to the type of contact.

Specific sound contacts existed in CMx1, and were literally labeled 'Sound Contact', however that hasn't been a thing since CMx2 was first created.
You are looking at the problem with blinkers on. Stop thinking in terms of sound.

That still leaves tanks spotting infantry under iffy circumstances, including no matter what you do (hide, cover, etc.) inside a certain range. These aren't other vehicles radioing it in or the result of guys firing or anything like that. I can even put a tank in a straight-up shootout with ATGs -- literally trading rounds -- and have it spot close-in infantry just as well as when it is sitting fat and happy with nothing around.

Edited by Apocal

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Some vehicles are completely blind to the rear. Try running infantry around behind a buttoned M8 scout car. It has no cupola or periscopes and won't spot anything behind it. 

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Page 46 of the manual. SLOW. Example : [...] Slow vehicle movement makes the vehicle less likely to appear as a sound contact to the enemy.

I'm confused. Does the sound contact exist or not ?

Regards

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2 minutes ago, Vencini said:

Page 46 of the manual. SLOW. Example : [...] Slow vehicle movement makes the vehicle less likely to appear as a sound contact to the enemy.

I'm confused. Does the sound contact exist or not ?

It actually reduces the range at which enemy units can hear the sound contact.

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4 hours ago, Apocal said:

That still leaves tanks spotting infantry under iffy circumstances, including no matter what you do (hide, cover, etc.) inside a certain range. These aren't other vehicles radioing it in or the result of guys firing or anything like that. I can even put a tank in a straight-up shootout with ATGs -- literally trading rounds -- and have it spot close-in infantry just as well as when it is sitting fat and happy with nothing around.

I think, SLIM, needs to owe you an apology...Just saying.

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This isn't rocket science guys. The ? contact icons represent a variety of "my unit thinks something is there". One team might hear an an enemy unit or they might see indeterminate movement in the trees. They tell their Lt who shares that with the Captain both of whom now get a ? contact icon that represents just being told one of their subordinates thinks they detected (in some way) an enemy unit.

Ergo the ? does *not* just represent a sound contact it represents *any* type of contact.

It is unclear to me what @SLIM would need to apologize for he just tried to explain how it works. Hopefully my attempt at it will work better for you but I thought his was clear and polite and helpful.

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7 hours ago, JoMc67 said:

I think, SLIM, needs to owe you an apology...Just saying.

Sorry for being right? :rolleyes: You can bring a grog to water, but you can't make it drink.

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Infantry who are not moving and are in tall vegetation are VERY difficult to spot. I haven't bothered to look at your test: are you using tall grass/bushes/shrubs, or just short grass?

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Infantry on the move that are spotted then relocate or go to ground will show a "contact" icon at their last known location. The icon will linger for a turn or so and disappear.

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59 minutes ago, c3k said:

Infantry who are not moving and are in tall vegetation are VERY difficult to spot. I haven't bothered to look at your test: are you using tall grass/bushes/shrubs, or just short grass?

Short grass. The default mix, with a slight lip they can duck behind on hide orders.

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A few years back I learned to use the term "Tentative Contacts" for the question mark type contact.  This is a more accurate term and reduces the amount of confusion.   The "tentative contacts" can be many things including sound, barely seen movement and memories of past verified contacts (the older the memory the more transparent the tentative contact).  

Closer interactions are checked more often than the "default" 7 second spotting checks.  So in theory the TC gets more spotting checks out of the copula the closer the infantry get.  There are so many variables it is difficult to determine if the tank crew generally would spot infantry as quickly as they did.  I think even the experience level of the crew and of the infantry would come into play ................   

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On ‎07‎/‎07‎/‎2017 at 10:17 PM, Xorg_Xalargsky said:

This is why I think we should get a Shoot And Scoot command. One of the top items on my wishlist, a command that lets the unit shoot a given number of times then run away! It's currently possible to reproduce this command with a Pause order, but it's not reliable, it's based on time, and you never know how much is required for a unit to shoot.

Big yes please!!

 

RPS is doing a run through of a scenario using CMBB and I forgot just how many commands you could chose from back then.

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