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For folks following this thread who would like to take their game realism to eleven, I can offer the following advice from my mini-research:

- Don't steer the Tiger I when reversing, doubly so on soft ground

- Don't turn the Tiger I in place on soft ground

- Don't reverse at all with the Panther

unless if the situation would make the TC willing to deal with a thrown track or replace the transmission. :D

Also - since the topic of immobilization keeps coming up in various threads - it turns out driver experience is very important for avoiding thrown track, so I wouldn't be surprised if tracked vehicles with low crew experience are more likely to get immobilized from movement.

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4 hours ago, Machor said:

Is the sole problem with Soviet vehicles having a slow reverse speed, or are there more significant issues like the Tiger and Panther?

It is just that - there is a single reverse gear that goes *up to* 4.18kph on a T-72 for example. As I said, the game is very forgiving of this, but not to the point where you can forget about the reverse problem because it is still very slow.

The reason carousel is sort of special is because it maximizes round output from several vehicles in several stages and it is about the only time you'll see combat rate of fire approach technical rate of fire. Beyond that you nailed it on the head - it is a substitute for calling in artillery. 

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Thank you for the clarification. I'm assuming the Merkava's three reverse gears have to do with the Israelis' penchant for prepared hull-down positions, and the first gear has a very high ratio for making sure that the tank doesn't get stuck trying to reverse out of a position, say, in the mud of the Golan Heights. If the Soviet army during the Cold War also clung to the doctrine of prepared positions in defense as practiced in the GPW, and Soviet designers were told to use a single reverse gear for sake of simplicity, it would make sense for them to use a gear with a relatively high ratio for the same reason as the Israelis. If all my assumptions are correct, we're looking at yet another fascinating aspect of how doctrine influences AFV design - one that I was completely unaware of. It would be most interesting if @panzersaurkrautwerfer , @Brian Smith , or @Rinaldi could compare reversing Western tracked AFVs.

I hadn't thought about ROF making the carousel 'special' - that makes the tactic's name spot-on as it's an [presumably unforeseen] advantage of the auto-loader. :) Since you said it originated in Afghanistan, though, it can obviously be pulled off with manual loading with shell sizes at least up to those of the T-55/62, which means loading-wise it could be executed by most WW2 tanks.I will still have to consider other factors like ventilation, or ejecting empty cases out of the turret - I know the T-62 did the latter automatically.

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Simplicity and doctrine are one side of the story. Weight and volume are another. The original gearbox design hovered around 38t tank that had to be the smallest possible while still being more armored than previous generations so space and armored volume was very tight. I bet you if they could have 8F/8R gearboxes in the 60s on the cheap and in the dimensions they wanted they would have put them in ;). I feel we are digressing from the original intent of this thread so I'll stop here. 

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20 hours ago, Machor said:

Thank you for the clarification. I'm assuming the Merkava's three reverse gears have to do with the Israelis' penchant for prepared hull-down... If the Soviet army during the Cold War also clung to the doctrine of prepared positions in defense as practiced in the GPW, and Soviet designers were told to use a single reverse gear for sake of simplicity, it would make sense for them to use a gear with a relatively high ratio for the same reason as the Israelis. If all my assumptions are correct...@panzersaurkrautwerfer , @Brian Smith , or @Rinaldi could compare reversing Western tracked AFVs.

I hadn't thought about ROF making the carousel 'special' - that makes the tactic's name spot-on as it's an [presumably unforeseen] advantage of the auto-loader. :) Since you said it originated in Afghanistan, though, it can obviously be pulled off with manual loading with shell sizes at least up to those of the T-55/62, which means loading-wise it could be executed by most WW2 tanks.I will still have to consider other factors like ventilation, or ejecting empty cases...

Wow first off thanks for the flattering assumption; but I must qualify that I was but a humble Canadian reservist (who actually did his PLO and showed up for parade days!) and am an enthusiast at best. The only fights I have now are in small claims court/OCJ and with my growing beer gut 😓! 

That being said I think your assumptions are based on sound observations. Afghanistan was a very formative experience for the Soviets and the successful continuation of many Afghanistan tactics to Chechnya would prop your assumptions up.

That being said; I can't speak to the Israeli experience. I've read nothing beyond pop histories and a few CSI articles. The Israeli penchant for offensive action doesn't really provide insight about technical specifics.

Edited by Rinaldi

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Thank you for the reply! :) I'll follow BTR's example and lay off the reversing topic - I hope it was of interest to Oleksandr and others.

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8 hours ago, Rinaldi said:

 and with my growing beer gut 😓! 

Any time you want to drop any tactical lifehacks about this fight - please do. God knows I need them :lol:

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I can say from experience that Bradleys can move quite well in reverse. I was a Bradley gunner during a rotation at the National Training Center in the late '80s. We were part of a movement to contact exercise when we encountered an M1 modified to look like a T72 in a twisty wadi. Our vehicle commander (who was a rather excitable kind of guy) started shouting "Reverse, reverse! over the intercom and our driver just hammered the gas, we flew backwards fast enough to bounce my head off the gunners sight! In all seriousness, US defensive doctrine does use dug in fighting positions that have two levels a turret down level for spotting and a hull down for engaging targets, this requires a lot of back and forth movement within the fighting position. BTW we got away from the tank, and shortly after our dismounts killed it.

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3 minutes ago, Splinty said:

 BTW we got away from the tank, and shortly after our dismounts killed it.

I am betting your dismounts were in a pretty foul mood for the warp factor 9 in reverse mr sulu!  Did they eliminate the tank by chopping it into little tiny pieces and defecating on it?

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Just now, sburke said:

I am betting your dismounts were in a pretty foul mood for the warp factor 9 in reverse mr sulu!  Did they eliminate the tank by chopping it into little tiny pieces and defecating on it?

They were a bit cranky, for sure! These were old school M2s from the '80s and the seating was quite cramped. It also didn't help that it was about a hundred degrees Farenheit and we'd been up for about three days straight at that point!

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Just came here to say that I'm proud of how you guys make this topic evolve in terms of context. Yet, it would be great if we would keep on working on tactical moves and experience related to this game and its mechanics. What I think is great is to take a real life conception of some strategy and then look for a way to implement that within this game. In a year from now we will end up with a full scale commander manual. Great job gentlemen, great job. 

Last but not least I would like to mention that I'm currently working on several mods what I will be posting one by one when those are ready. 

Everyone have a great day. 

Glory to Ukraine. 

3mYupfePdyE.jpg

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Gentlemen I'm sorry for this plug but we were exchanging some dope experiences in here and because of that I would like to let you know that I would be happy if you will check out my mod. I was working on this mod and I will work on other mods as well. Since I will be posting screenshots for tactical life hack using these mods Im working on at the moment it would be cool if you will have them as well. First one is ready to download by the way. And that is MABUTA MK-2 uniform in Varan camo pattern. I basically reworked everything including all gear elements so I hope some of you will enjoy to have it in your game. Glory to Ukraine. 

P.S. Other tactical moves are on the way. 

6H4d4Le.png

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Guys I would like to encourage you to use one tool within CMBS while playing Ukranian side during those countless quick battles - use "SKIF" ATGM more. It is a fine tool of destruction - range of 5.5 km - super accurate and deadly. Recently I've had a game where I was commanding 2 mech infantry companies against 1 mech battalion + recon company. It was meeting engagement scenario - 2 hours and everything like that. So with a right positioning of those 4 Skifs I had I've destroyed 33 vehicles 25 minutes of combat. Later I will write about how to use and how to place those complexes and how to provide cover to them while facing mech troops and how to work against tanks (tactics against tanks are slightly different - meaning that you avoid direct contact with them and reposition more). So basically ellite difficulty (as usual), everything fair all the enemy units were veterans - mine were regulars (except of Skifs - those ive made veterans as well) - well pc simply surrendered after 1 hour. We've end up on 177 enemy soldiers dead, 70+ killed, all armor and everything what could move was burned, most of infantry left were broken. But thats not the point - the point is that on a distance larger than 2500 Skif is a real time beast. I mean I know that it is one of the best complexes ever made in real life but it actually pretty amazing within this game as well. It would be so cool if we would get updated version of it in the game - with indirect control of it so that we can use it as a turrent without risking our soldiers so those would not dirt our statistics after battle. Yet, back to my advise - take a closer look on Skif AT system within the game it is a great thing. For 2500 meters I would pick Corsar but if you are playing on large scale maps like more than 3000 meters and all that - skif is what you need. 

this is video about skif in real life   

 

this is photo of it from real life QlgK2mh.jpg

And these are few screens from the game:

BAaqixC.jpg

xuEFv89.jpg

Hqs317k.jpg

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So here are some upcoming things I will write or post about: 

How to place ATGMs against mech infantry

How to place ATGMs against Tanks

How to provide cover for both of them. 

How to use distance in your favor. 

Furthermore, there will be few mods coming up later this week one of which will be additional nation to the blue side (and not to Ukrainian side). 

Last but not least I might do reskin of each ATGM system within this wonderful game but not sure when. 

Stay tunned for more info, life hacks and tactics my fellow commanders because there is no enemy who we would not be able to mix with dirt while putting deep into ground lol. 

wDy0Fcg.jpg

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4 minutes ago, Oleksandr said:

use "SKIF" ATGM more. It is a fine tool of destruction - range of 5.5 km - super accurate and deadly.

I totally agree. I recently finished a quick battle where I had three of these launchers in a reverse slow position. The enemy T90s made short work on my T64s and I feared the worst when the first two SKIF missiles missed but over the next two minutes those teams fired four missiles and scored four wrecked T90s. That defiantly slowed my opponent's advance. I still lost but it was a great few turns :)

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25 minutes ago, Oleksandr said:

For 2500 meters I would pick Corsar but if you are playing on large scale maps like more than 3000 meters and all that - skif is what you need.

Also, I'm pretty sure that Skif has a thermal sight in game, whereas Corsar doesn't - the manual isn't very clear about this. Since Russian tanks also have thermals (only the Oplot does on the Ukrainian side), this can make a crucial difference depending on visibility or if the Russian player spams smoke.

23 minutes ago, IanL said:

the first two SKIF missiles missed but over the next two minutes those teams fired four missiles and scored four wrecked T90s

The tank to watch out for is the T-90AM; its ERA seems capable of defeating Skif with at least 50% probability.

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5 minutes ago, Machor said:

Also, I'm pretty sure that Skif has a thermal sight in game, whereas Corsar doesn't - the manual isn't very clear about this. Since Russian tanks also have thermals (only the Oplot does on the Ukrainian side), this can make a crucial difference depending on visibility or if the Russian player spams smoke.

The tank to watch out for is the T-90AM; its ERA seems capable of defeating Skif with at least 50% probability.

I hope they will update that thermal thing to Ukrainian side with a next update because BTR-4 got thermal, New Bulats got thermal, and updated version of Corsar has optional thermal sights. This game overall needs to be updated due to changed technologies of all sides. For example Ravens are trash and cannot be used against russia at all. Strykers are trash and cant compete with BTRs  in terms of fire power - we need new stryker with that new 30 mm turret from General Dynamics. And so on. 

Last but not least Ukrainian side should be updated with some drones of its own. And I really hope that one day we will see MRLS systems within this game - at least basic - BM-21 and MRLS.

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4 minutes ago, Oleksandr said:

BTR-4 got thermal, New Bulats got thermal

Are you mentioning the possibility of equipping them with thermals - of which I am aware - or are vehicles with thermals already in service with Ukraine? The latter would be a huge capability improvement.

9 minutes ago, Oleksandr said:

Ukrainian side should be updated with some drones of its own

Steve did mention how they failed to foresee the speed with which Ukraine adopted drones, so I assume this issue will be resolved with the next module.

12 minutes ago, Oleksandr said:

I really hope that one day we will see MRLS systems within this game

My understanding is this wasn't done for the sake of playability; i.e. the effect of MLRS in the scale of the game is almost like a nuclear weapon.

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1 hour ago, Machor said:

Are you mentioning the possibility of equipping them with thermals - of which I am aware - or are vehicles with thermals already in service with Ukraine? The latter would be a huge capability improvement.

Steve did mention how they failed to foresee the speed with which Ukraine adopted drones, so I assume this issue will be resolved with the next module.

My understanding is this wasn't done for the sake of playability; i.e. the effect of MLRS in the scale of the game is almost like a nuclear weapon.

All BTR 4s what were ever produced got laser range finder, night vision + stabilizaion, all of its combat modules can be operated from the distance. So basically gunner can sit ouside and use it as a turret or sit inside close on a crew sit - so module itself is autonomic and you dont kill a crew member if u hit it. New generation of these has better infra-red projection sort of speak - and can be optionally equipped with full scale thermal sight. Yet it is fair to say that from the very first day BTR-4 got vision what can be described as half-thermal - meaning that on certain distance it can recognize targets with different temprature on them - thats why they were used with first generation of Bulats during 2014 - because they were sort of marking targets for tanks due to lack of sufficient sigts at that time. 

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Now Bulats

This one is old one and being used widely: zn4mnTa.jpg

 

This one is new one and still is a little rare: e6zE2HE.jpg

 

If I will find some photos and videos of its scope and technical specs I will post on a separate post not to flood in here coz this post relates to tactics more. 

Yet, the quick answer is yes - on pretty much every model of a modern Ukrainian tank you can put a thermal sight - and they are optionally avaliable for your order. 

Are they widely used? Nope. Are there more and more of thermal sights in Ukranian Armor? Yes. 

 

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Now gentlemen Im sorry for my step away from tactics and life hacks. I will start a new threat for informing you about non-classified Ukranian tech specs and cooperation between USA, Canada, Denmark, CZ, and other military machines with Ukraine. I really like that fact that you gentlemen are showing some interest. Please feel free to msg me directly. 

Good luck on the battlefield. 

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Again not such a lifehack, but if you want to "infantry à la russe" consider always acquiring all the RPG-26s from purchased IFV or APC that are provides at your deployment phase. Originally discardable launchers were introduced as replacement to handled AT grenades so it is accurate to use them en-masse when they are available. MG team takes 1, sniper team can be loaded with 2, and platoon HQ can take 2 as well. A BMP squad can take 3 and BTR/MTLB squad can take a rather hefty load of 4. As such, a typical BMP load of 4 RPG-26s can be fully distributed between its most likely occupants of MG or sniper section and a squad (which already comes with 1 RPG-26 by default). If you split your squad into equal teams the team with RPG-7 operator will always get 1 RPG-26 and the rest of discardable tubes will go to the second team. 

To illustrate how my infantry squads always try to look - 

uP6Qths.png

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