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On 9/10/2017 at 0:01 AM, Sgt.Squarehead said:

Slowly at the moment, I'll make posts in the relevant thread in due course.

BMPs are capable of much more than mopping-up believe me, look up the 'Bronegruppa' Rinaldi refers to in his post.  Tactics that are useful against a peer state opponent (even in a low intensity conflict) may not work as well in an entirely asymmetric environment.  Likewise you can do things in an environment such as CM:A (in the earlier years at any rate) that you just wouldn't dare against an opponent who might have modern(ish) ATGMs.

Hope this doesn't distract too much from your thread @Oleksandr I think it's actually quite relevant given the wide range of 'conflict intensity' that CM:BS offers us.

Bro we are sharing our experience here - im not teaching anyone how to play the game. I just tell how I do it sometimes so other players can take something from it. About that PDF file thing what was discussed here - after certain amount of ideas will be collected here I think we will be able to vote on what of those ideas to include in that PDF and what are not worth mentioning. As some people say, "we will build together." 

7999b0e73d06c36436dbb6918218d64c--military-equipment-armed-forces.jpg

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On 9/10/2017 at 1:16 AM, Apocal said:

Yo, Oleksandr, I appreciate the way you're laying this out and everything, but you're spending a lot of points on fortifications (assuming QBs) to protect some pretty cheap units. The dismounted portion of the mountain rifle platoon costs about as much as the 10x trenches (200 points) necessary to fortify them and it still doesn't protect against 122/152 artillery. Modest amounts of 152 in particular (roughly 40 shells or in other words a heavy+medium fire mission) will basically eviscerate them in spite of the trench network you laid out. 200 points won't quite get your (Russian) opponent a full 82mm mortar battery, but it will cover the cost of ammo fired as long as it tears up the platoons-in-trenches you have, which is doable. A big part of it is because as you showed, you have those forces way too close together.

Instead of trying to build a single continuous network, you probably should be making little squad sub-forts that are spread wider apart from one another. Because putting the platoon in a clump means a single 60-90m linear or 75m area fire mission will hit everyone and players aren't like AI, so they have no problem with hitting a wooded area at slightest suspicion of it being occupied.

I hear you man. Its just Im making screenshots and ideas for post when Im in the game - so if I had few defencive games I post few things from defencive perspective. If it is meeting engagement (coming soon) I will post more about combination and positioning. Furthermore I'm going to share some of my own build ups in terms of platoon composition. Thank you for your points by the way. I will aslo share some ideas towards arty in the future. Please feel free to add screen shots to your further answers. + Critics are more than welcome. From my personal view there are no such thing as a perfect composition or a perfect tactics. I think that if from 10 cases something worked 6 times it is a good result. Afterall I'm just a fan of this game. 

afb2ab2678b1267aac22632a1ff0863f--tank-ukraine.jpg

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Gentlemen, Im sorry if I didnt respond on all of your comments. Since I'm in Florida right now we are recovering from Irma hurricane so due to certain problems with power and internet I wasnt able to respond fast. Yet as a member of Ukrainian diaspora I would like to thank you for your comments, thoughts and critisim. It is important for me to share my experience with you guys and be able to get something in return. Thank you for your participation gentlemen. Last but not least I would like to highlight my point - I'm not daring to teach anyone how to play - Im simply sharing what worked for me. I'm planing to cover multiple aspects of this wonderful game - arty, movement, recconisance, tactics, momentum, and yes some of my personal build ups in terms of picking forces and composing them into platoons, companies, and so on. God Bless you all.

1022158579.jpg

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1 hour ago, Oleksandr said:

Yet, with all do respect I have to remind you that reveal of calssified materials related to armed forces is a crime.

Man, theese "classified materials" are in almost each soldier's twitter  - main source of REAL picture of Ukrainian army and war in whole :) 

 

1 hour ago, Oleksandr said:

Moreover, your statement about "Abscence of 30-50% of personell" is taken out of the blue.

Of course, situation form USA is seen better, then from inside :)

1 hour ago, Oleksandr said:

That information doesnt refers to actual game process.

Example of real VOP with dimensions is not refers ? Well, sorry.  Your topic - your rules. 

Edited by Haiduk

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"...im not teaching anyone how to play the game."

Actually, I was hoping that sharing ideas on how to better play the game is what this thread is about.  There's tons of grog threads and posts about the "real life" equipment and forces.  It's great to finally have a thread that focuses on tactics and ideas that are useful in this game.

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16 minutes ago, Haiduk said:

Man, theese "classified materials" are in almost each soldier's twitter  - main source of REAL picture of Ukrainian army and war in whole :) 

 

Of course, situation form USA is seen better, then from inside :)

Example of real VOP with dimensions is not refers ? Well, sorry.  Your topic - your rules. 

Not going to argue with you man if you want to discuss or argue on something - always welcome to text me. 

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On following screenshots you can see one of the ways to deploy your platoon into attacking formation. I broke this operation into few stages and this is Stage 1

I love counter-attacking. I like to advance only when major forces of my opponent are destroyed (especially heavy armor). 

So when you ready to advance this is one of the options you can follow. First decide where will you attack. Look for some space to maneuver on. Always have some forces covering and supressing your enemy. Form a line with your APC's. Keep some distance between them. 1st deploy your squads in areas between your APC's. Under Ideal conditions your HQ element should be handing out in the middle of your formation. Every squad you deploy you should direct with a "face" command towards that area you moving to. Your 3rd Squad will need certain guidence - meaning that in different situation it should be placed in different places - sometimes hard left - sometimes behind formation - sometimes ahead of it. 

Look at your APC's as at borders of your stage 1 - your infantry should fill those gaps between your armor. 

This is the most dangerous moment of deploying your units. Space between armor is tight - your units deploying same time - direct hit to any of your APC's will lead to casualties. Yet if you have proper cover from other platoons, if your arty and other units are keeping your enemy busy - if you plan everything right - you should be ok. 

 

L16.jpg

L17.jpg

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Stage 2 - adjust the distance between your APC and your infantry according to situation. Split your squads into elements and place them in better positions. 

Here situation dictates - sometimes its good to push forward - sometimes its better to fight few minutes after deployment and then move forward like in chess - turn after turn. 

On following screenshot you can see left wing of your platoon (squad N1) right after distance adjustment and element division. 

L21.jpg

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Element division and placement. By placing your elements in this way you will achive multiple advantages. First your flangs will be covered with MG what will allow you to use BMP fire on targets directly ahead of you (this will be important while moving your squads as figures on a chessboard - meaning one bmp and one squad are supressing and covering while squad N2 moving forward a little). Light Mg placed like this will be able to support both MG and RPG teams - meaning that on a small area you will be able to gain some fire superiority. your RPG team will able to work with GP and RPG weapons while being covered and as a result compensated by the fire of your BMP. Another important thing is that if your enemy will take down your BMP your squad will survive that explosion. Moreover, while being positioned like that your squad cannot be killed all at once (unless there are AGS systems working against you). 

This micro level move will take some time but it will pay off. In this example I've used standard mechnized platoon (Mountain infantry 7 ppl in squad dividing into 3 elements). 

L19.jpg

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Optional: Sometimes it is nice to give your side BMP's intercrossing target arcs so that BMP in the middle will be free for your use. In that way you can order your mid BMP TARGET orders on your will and be kinda safe on your platoon in general. However, you should be careful while doing that because your target arcs should be intercrossing and for that you need a distance - then you need some comfy place to do that (which happens rarely) and you should be 100% sure that your other units are covering your platoon. Why you do it then? Well sometimes you need to take down house by house and move by baby steps. Why? Remember my post about not placing your infantry directly into buildings? Thats why. If you attacking a town or a village from the open area - sometimes its nice to play with TARGET command to trigger your hidden enemy units. Yet its up to you. For me it worked few times. 

L22.jpg

L23.jpg

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Certain players prefer attacking over defending. Certain players like to walk themselves into meeting engagement. I like to do all of that. There are so many ways to win and even more to lose. But if you guys going to get into details, if you will produce and then test your ideas you will win more. I will expand on platoon level tactics and hints in closest future, and when we will be done with that we will go to company level plaining. From micro to macro and other way around lol. Have a great day gentlemen and I wish you all luck in your battles. Glory to Ukraine! 

1932063.jpg

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4 hours ago, Oleksandr said:

Stugna is good for spotting - it is way better than sights of tanks.

If Stugna spots even better than the Bulat, I wonder if this is simply because it isn't buttoned up, or if the launcher does have a fancy sight. @Haiduk is the man to ask.

The T-64 can, of course, take out BTRs with HE, though one can ask if it's earning its keep if all it does is eat BTR.

The question I asked about 'bot spotting' has to do with the fact that it's considered 'gamey.' [CM veterans may want to chime in here.] If you want the T-64 to engage contacts spotted by the Stugna, you're supposed to wait for the Stugna to share that info with the T-64; otherwise, you're giving the T-64 gunner telepathic powers. You can improve contact sharing by attaching a team to a tank or vice versa.

Keep safe and sound!

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Given the issues ex-Soviet & Russian/Ukrainian equipment seems to have with spotting it seems like a pretty legitimate tactic to me (against the AI), in a head to head game such things should be discussed and mutually agreed upon prior to play commencing IMHO.

Edited by Sgt.Squarehead

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21 hours ago, Oleksandr said:

This is what your platood will look like right after deployment. Again - squad 3 can be placed differently depending on situation. 

L20.jpg

I think, to locate personnel on the road is bad idea.

Edited by Haiduk

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7 minutes ago, Haiduk said:

I think, to locate personnel on the road is bad idea.

Yes its actually is - I just located them here on the open area to show the principal. Yet sometimes following road can be ok (like on the photo below) but thats a different story. 

Screen N2.jpg

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On 11.09.2017 at 2:46 AM, Rinaldi said:

Nice picture Haiduk, one that I will be saving for reference. Makes me proud of the trenches I put into Power Hour. Shame trenches are a toss up with defilade-defeating ammunition. 

Well... Here another one example of heavy defended position, but for linear defense. Looks like ROP (company strongpoint), thouh may by it's a part of ROP. 750 m along 210 in wide (not counting trenches for BMP in the rear). System of trenches organized aside a tree-palnt. In 460 m in front of trenches you can see continuos anti-tank ditch with ebbankment

On other example - at once three types of positions - triangle, solid line and separate angle trances for (half)squad. Pay attention on old craters of bombardment, shells have impacted in a place between trenches in ellipse 300 x 145 m 

 

ROP.jpg

ROP2.jpg

Edited by Haiduk

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Do you think those frontages would shorten somewhat if the fighting was more intense? Company defensive zones, even if organized in platoon strong points, tend to be a wee bit shorter in frontage if my memory serves. At any rate, thanks again - this is all gold from a scenario design perspective. 

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8 hours ago, Rinaldi said:

Do you think those frontages would shorten somewhat if the fighting was more intense? Company defensive zones, even if organized in platoon strong points, tend to be a wee bit shorter in frontage if my memory serves. At any rate, thanks again - this is all gold from a scenario design perspective. 

I think, yes. But positions on these photos are also too dense as for usual position layout. Maybe because its defending big city from tank-hazard direction. Looks like its just main line (second of third) of defense behind of forward chain of VOPs. While enemy with big forces will assault first line, reserve troops will occupy this defensive area. 

Edited by Haiduk

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Small hint related to later battle phase (I will describe each phase later on). 

After knocking out hostile tanks and apc's dont forget to work on buildings what were located close to positions of that destroyed armor. It is important to understand that even if you dont see your enemy's infantry it can still be there. Usually when enemy units panic they are moving to a closest cover. So if you destroyed a tank - its crew can hide in closest buildings. Crews are not that dangerous - regular infantry is. If you destroyed lets say BTR with a tank - everyone who was inside of it is dead. Yet, if you destroyed BTR with a BTR - some units could dismount and take cover. Moreover, if your enemy was already holding some ground his infantry was probably already dismounted and when you hit that APC of his - infantry would start move away after heaving few ppl dead. So if you have some time, and if you destroying your enemy properly, work on buildings located near by destroyed armor. To do this quickly it is always nice to use "Tunguska." Yet, using that one should be only under cover of other units. Better mashing them along with some tanks. So there are 2 situations when you can use them comfortably to work on those buildings 1st tightly connecting them with tank platoon 2 when area is under control and you are hunting for survivors. Tunguska will lower down pretty much any building within 1 move and what is more important it will kill pretty much everyone within that building with a single burst. So by the moment your turn is over you can be nearly 100% sure that you will get your enemy wiped out from the map. Besides buildings this thing is great to smash your enemy covered in woods. 

NOTE: be careful while using this monster - its burst will go through entire map and it is not reccomended to use when you have some friendly units around that target area. By the way this post is a little introduction to battle phasing. 

 

L24.jpg

L25.jpg

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Village house Squad Placement.

Spliting squad into elements and placing those close to one another can be a good idea while fighting in villages. While towns and cities providing us with multiple floor buildings - village is not. Usually you will buildings with 1 or maybe 2 floors avialable for unit placement. In situations like one you can see on following screenshots it was a nice idea to leave RPG team inside while MG team is cutting off infantry from outside. Yet it was done in such way becase there was a BTR-4E placed neard by. His turret was doing main job and infantry was simply collecting everything what left. If you would have no armor in your squad area you would need to do everything in exact opposite way by placing RPG team outside and MG team inside. Doing things this way will help to keep your forces alive a little longer. Try to use those grasslines for concealment purposes - it is highly effective against enemy soldiers. Basically they don see your otside team right away, they might even spot your indoor team first. Plus you can always retreat to that house under cover fire of your indoors team. Micro controll always pays off. If your soldiers are getting suppressed to the ground, if they covering longer than shooting - you might want to order them to retreat. Furthermore, placing your soldiers close to grasslines is perfect for ambushing your enemy. Use one element as a core and another element to expand your perimeter. 

 

L26.jpg

L27.jpg

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44 minutes ago, Oleksandr said:

Village house Squad Placement.

Spliting squad into elements and placing those close to one another can be a good idea while fighting in villages. While towns and cities providing us with multiple floor buildings - village is not. Usually you will buildings with 1 or maybe 2 floors avialable for unit placement. In situations like one you can see on following screenshots it was a nice idea to leave RPG team inside while MG team is cutting off infantry from outside. Yet it was done in such way becase there was a BTR-4E placed neard by. His turret was doing main job and infantry was simply collecting everything what left. If you would have no armor in your squad area you would need to do everything in exact opposite way by placing RPG team outside and MG team inside. Doing things this way will help to keep your forces alive a little longer. Try to use those grasslines for concealment purposes - it is highly effective against enemy soldiers. Basically they don see your otside team right away, they might even spot your indoor team first. Plus you can always retreat to that house under cover fire of your indoors team. Micro controll always pays off. If your soldiers are getting suppressed to the ground, if they covering longer than shooting - you might want to order them to retreat. Furthermore, placing your soldiers close to grasslines is perfect for ambushing your enemy. Use one element as a core and another element to expand your perimeter. 

May I suggest to have the MG team in the building and the RPG outside?  The back blast from the RPG is going to suppress/pin the firing team in an enclosed space.

Edited by Stefano Z

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7 minutes ago, Stefano Z said:

May I suggest to have the MG team in the building and the RPG outside?  The back blast from the RPG is going to suppress/pin the firing team in an enclosed space.

Thats the great thing to suggest. Yet, in my experience only SPG teams and ATGM's were getting injured by it so far. I guess it depends on a size of that house. 

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Quick question @Oleksandr  Do you leave a two man team in your BMPs when playing CM:BS and do you believe it makes a difference?  It's a habit I picked up in CM:A where it seems to make a big difference, but I haven't played this title enough to form a firm opinion (particularly regarding BMP-3s),

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3 minutes ago, Sgt.Squarehead said:

Quick question @Oleksandr  Do you leave a two man team in your BMPs when playing CM:BS and do you believe it makes a difference?  It's a habit I picked up in CM:A where it seems to make a big difference, but I haven't played this title enough to form a firm opinion (particularly regarding BMP-3s),

Hey brother, regarding your question, I actually never thought about this. You mean leave a 2 man team within BMP so that BMP can see/spot better? 

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