Tactical Lifehack

[Erwin]

For example, one tactic (strategy?) that Reds use (TBOMK) would be attack in echelon three companies deep.  So, the first gets badly mauled but degrades the defense.  The 2nd degrades the defenders even more but also becomes combat ineffective afterwards. The third wave breaks through to the rear. 

However to attempt this one needs a Battalion-sized force - which is one reason am happy to see Olek have a crack at this large (for CM2) size scenario.

HerrTom's AAR about his river crossing assault on another thread is also instructive. (An der Schönen Blauen Dnjepr.)

Edited February 27, 2018 by Erwin

[Artkin]

Instructive in what sense? Rolling T72B3 platoons to their death? 

[Erwin]

So...  Show how you would do better.

[Artkin]

Tough crowd nowadays.

[Aej2000]

@Oleksandr

Hey Olek I've been browsing this thread for a while now and was just wondering if you used an already made map for your tutorial. If you used a default map if you could tell me it's name it'd be quite helpful. Thanks.
 

Edited February 28, 2018 by Aej2000

[domfluff]

Using 203mm artillery to make foxholes seems like an awful idea to me, where the same (or better) protection could be supplied using far cheaper smoke assets, in CM or real life. Smoke-penetrating IR might make a huge difference to this calculation, but even in that situation I'm not sure that foxhole-by-artillery is viable.

However, this is a starting point for a discussion. I don't feel like attacking ad hominem is useful at all here - you certainly don't need to be able to demonstrate practical use to teach well, since teaching and practice are often vastly different skills. It's certainly correct to debate the value of the advice, and you're free to counter with alternatives. 

To compare - two points that Olek has posted that I have found particularly interesting revolve around the use of BMP's to support an attack, and using a mixture of artillery assets on the same target. The former is important, since unlike the Stryker or an APC, the BMP is clearly a fighting vehicle, albeit not a terribly *good* one (at least in terms of survivability). That means that the platoon needs it's BMPs to be exposed and using it's fire support, but can't afford to expose them too much, since they'll just lose the asset.

In his earlier post, the BMP's are dismounting about 1km away from their targets, and the infantry dismounts are proceeding on foot. I've been playing around with not dismounting the MG, sniper and HQ teams, keeping them to spot, and only advancing with the six man squads. That seems to work pretty well - the dismounts can't really deal with any incoming fire, but the BMPs certainly can from that distance. In that scheme, the other squads are mostly there for when the infantry are leading (in close terrain), or setting up a defensive position. The 1km dismount is a large distance, and the infantry take some time to cross it - there's plenty of time for a response to be generated here - but it's definitely a way to get more out of the BMP support. In that scheme of attack, the dismounts can begin to engage anyone left on the objective, but may have difficulty pushing through. This is when the BMPs can be brought up for closer support, or can flank the objective to get things moving.

[Erwin]

3 hours ago, domfluff said:

been playing around with not dismounting the MG, sniper and HQ teams, keeping them to spot, and only advancing with the six man squads. That seems to work pretty well

Yes.  The extra crew improve spotting for the vehicle.

[MOS:96B2P]

3 hours ago, domfluff said:

In his earlier post, the BMP's are dismounting about 1km away from their targets, and the infantry dismounts are proceeding on foot. I've been playing around with not dismounting the MG, sniper and HQ teams, keeping them to spot, and only advancing with the six man squads. That seems to work pretty well  <SNIP> 

Interesting.   Not sure if you saw what @Marwek77 aka Red Reporter  said earlier in this thread but it seems it would also be useful: The position of the leader depends on how your soldiers enter the vehicle!  I discovered that I must unload everybody and then load 1st soldier I want to play the leader role.

There was also another thread in which @antaress73 said that said the squad leader made the best spotter.    

 

3 hours ago, domfluff said:

The 1km dismount is a large distance, and the infantry take some time to cross it - there's plenty of time for a response to be generated here - but it's definitely a way to get more out of the BMP support.

This is probably just a factor on the very large open maps.  (That statement is sure to get @Erwin attention .)  The supporting vehicle, WW2 halftrack, Stryker, BMP etc. can usually be one suitable terrain feature behind the advancing infantry.   Which on many maps is 300 to 400 meters.  

[domfluff]

Does "One terrain feature behind" imply "out of line of sight" though?

That's been my issue with the BMP - the squad needs to use it's firepower to support the advance, but the BMP needs to not get shot at. It's pretty great at the former, but terrible at the latter, so range seems to be a decent option. Clearly, anything outside of AT-4 (and equivalent) range would do, I suppose.

[Oleksandr]

12 hours ago, Aej2000 said:

@Oleksandr

Hey Olek I've been browsing this thread for a while now and was just wondering if you used an already made map for your tutorial. If you used a default map if you could tell me it's name it'd be quite helpful. Thanks.
 

here is the map - it is a default map brother. You are very welcome. 

[MOS:96B2P]

52 minutes ago, domfluff said:

Does "One terrain feature behind" imply "out of line of sight" though?

In theory some type of cover, Hull down, key holed etc. where the vehicle can provide over-watch and hopefully not get hit.  I admit the difference between theory and practice can sometimes be difficult. 

[A Canadian Cat]

5 hours ago, domfluff said:

Using 203mm artillery to make foxholes seems like an awful idea to me, where the same (or better) protection could be supplied using far cheaper smoke assets, in CM or real life. Smoke-penetrating IR might make a huge difference to this calculation, but even in that situation I'm not sure that foxhole-by-artillery is viable.

I totally agree with that. The IR the US have makes smoke less than ideal. Even against the Russians it is not as good as you might expect. IMHO.

 

5 hours ago, domfluff said:

However, this is a starting point for a discussion. I don't feel like attacking ad hominem is useful at all here - you certainly don't need to be able to demonstrate practical use to teach well, since teaching and practice are often vastly different skills. It's certainly correct to debate the value of the advice, and you're free to counter with alternatives. 

To compare - two points that Olek has posted that I have found particularly interesting revolve around the use of BMP's to support an attack, and using a mixture of artillery assets on the same target. The former is important, since unlike the Stryker or an APC, the BMP is clearly a fighting vehicle, albeit not a terribly *good* one (at least in terms of survivability). That means that the platoon needs it's BMPs to be exposed and using it's fire support, but can't afford to expose them too much, since they'll just lose the asset.

I agree with you there.

 

5 hours ago, domfluff said:

In his earlier post, the BMP's are dismounting about 1km away from their targets, and the infantry dismounts are proceeding on foot. I've been playing around with not dismounting the MG, sniper and HQ teams, keeping them to spot, and only advancing with the six man squads. That seems to work pretty well - the dismounts can't really deal with any incoming fire, but the BMPs certainly can from that distance. In that scheme, the other squads are mostly there for when the infantry are leading (in close terrain), or setting up a defensive position. The 1km dismount is a large distance, and the infantry take some time to cross it - there's plenty of time for a response to be generated here - but it's definitely a way to get more out of the BMP support. In that scheme of attack, the dismounts can begin to engage anyone left on the objective, but may have difficulty pushing through. This is when the BMPs can be brought up for closer support, or can flank the objective to get things moving.

Yep.

 

1 hour ago, MOS:96B2P said:

Interesting.   Not sure if you saw what @Marwek77 aka Red Reporter  said earlier in this thread but it seems it would also be useful: The position of the leader depends on how your soldiers enter the vehicle!  I discovered that I must unload everybody and then load 1st soldier I want to play the leader role.

Thank you for pointing that out. I had been keeping people in the vehicle and over half the time they were not giving me the benefit because they were not sitting in the big chair.

 

1 hour ago, MOS:96B2P said:

There was also another thread in which @antaress73 said that said the squad leader made the best spotter.   

I do not know how much of a difference it makes but having the squad leader with his men *does* make a big difference on the ground so I'll stick with other units for filling the BMP commander's chair.

 

1 hour ago, MOS:96B2P said:

This is probably just a factor on the very large open maps.  (That statement is sure to get @Erwin attention .)  The supporting vehicle, WW2 halftrack, Stryker, BMP etc. can usually be one suitable terrain feature behind the advancing infantry.   Which on many maps is 300 to 400 meters.  

 

49 minutes ago, domfluff said:

Does "One terrain feature behind" imply "out of line of sight" though?

That's been my issue with the BMP - the squad needs to use it's firepower to support the advance, but the BMP needs to not get shot at. It's pretty great at the former, but terrible at the latter, so range seems to be a decent option. Clearly, anything outside of AT-4 (and equivalent) range would do, I suppose.

I have also been using the BMP to provide fire power and actually fight. What I have had some success with is keeping them behind terrain and out of sight until there is something to shoot at. So, my current MO is to have BMP's ferry the soldiers close to the action and then dismount the troops and have the BMPs stay behind terrain until the troops have found things to shoot at. That could either be because they were shot at or just when the find good places for the enemy to be, that are just to dangerous to leave pristine. This is by no means a flawless process. Weapons are so deadly that sometimes whole squads are just gone before the BMP can move up. So, I feel like I do not have the balance right. I can tell you for sure that an attack can fall apart fast when you loose the support of the BMPs. I just had a platoon plus reduced to stragglers in one battle. Things were going pretty well following my plan above until the enemy started to get traction on taking out the BMPs. My fire power dropped so fast the unit was rendered combat ineffective very quickly. All because I only gained fire superiority locally.

 

[A Canadian Cat]

4 minutes ago, MOS:96B2P said:

In theory some type of cover, Hull down, key holed etc. where the vehicle can provide over-watch and hopefully not get hit.

Key hole can be very helpful - wish I had kept that in mind for my above example. The nice thing about key holing your fire support is by definition the firing vehicle only has to worry about threats from where it is already firing from. The downside is those other threats can still attack your dismounts as they move forward. So ...

4 minutes ago, MOS:96B2P said:

I admit the difference between theory and practice can sometimes be difficult. 

 

[Oleksandr]

Extra note for 203MM foxholes arty missions. It is one of the way to use that arty and it was a hint like "hey guys you can actually save some infantry in those holes duh" but it wasnt like - you guys need to use it only for that. Now about this idea being expensive or something - it is not from my opinion. Full time maximum firemission will be lasting for around 13-15 minutes. Its I blieve 80 shells per 4 howitzers so if in the begining of the game you will be planning massive attack and will wait for 2-3 minutes while that arty drops you will still have around 60 of those 200+mm shells ready to drop on your enemy (in your pocket). So it is all depends on situation. Now I also showed you that it is the only arty in the game what will make holes lol fittable for your infantry - so you are welcome I did saved you some time lol. 

And actually things like that being used since ww1. 

You smash the ground with heavy arty - you put teams in there - or you move from a hole to hole. For open feilds attacks? For company level movement along with vehicles? For your own tacticool mood afterall? I think its wonderful. Now a NOTE: This is not the only way to use 200+ mm arty - but it is the most tacticool way to do that. From my opinion it is awesome. But you do you guys.

[Oleksandr]

Guys one more thing - Im not a teacher or something - please post your ideas and how you do things I want to learn from you as well. 

So dont like just read what I say - Im not like a yoda or something lol Im a regular guy - simply saying something what came to my mind. Illustrating it when I got some time. Please show how you do stuff so I can learn from you as well, that we all can learn from you. 

This is not a sacrasm - I'm actually asking you to show how you manage some things. Tell us anything you think is important to know. Please post posts related to different armies represented in the game. Be active. Maybe you know the better way to assault urban areas or maybe you dont like 3 company positioning and you would like them go echelon one by one. Please you are wellcome to show and to post here your screens. 

Coz it looks weird its like Im telling you how to do stuff - no I'm not. Im sharing how I did it. 

Please share your views. 

How would you manage battalion level attack on an enemy company? How would you minimize casualties? Or how would you go battalion on battalion? Or maybe you know the sick way to put some element of your squad in platoon vs platoon battle. Please guys - share. Screenshots will be massively supported. 

[Oleksandr]

By the way I do have a question for all of you. How to use "hull down" command in a proper way? Its a waypoint right but how to use it so that it will make sense in the game - because when I order a vehicle to move forward with that command - it still exposes itself. Shouldnt be like stopping at certain point so that its only its turret up? 

Anotherwords how to do this in the game? 

[domfluff]

This is what I do, which works really well for me. The actual Hull Down-move waypoint is probably too far forward to be safe, but it's indicative really.

When you target a grid square, it's getting LOS to a point somewhat *above* the square, so there's an offset. It won't do as good a job as the Abrams (ahem) in the photo above, but it'll do a good-enough job for CM, in my experience. The experiences of others seem to differ.

 

Edited February 28, 2018 by domfluff

[Artkin]

Thats a beautiful ol' challenger 2. You can tell by its lovely skirt, and rifled gun (Easy to distinguish with the thermal sleeve on the cannon)!

[domfluff]

Gah, have to hand in my Grog card! Sorry, was more concerned with finding the link

[Artkin]

No worries.  I have a copy of Jane's armor identification guide. Although concise, it does the job!

[Oleksandr]

2 hours ago, domfluff said:

This is what I do, which works really well for me. The actual Hull Down-move waypoint is probably too far forward to be safe, but it's indicative really.

When you target a grid square, it's getting LOS to a point somewhat *above* the square, so there's an offset. It won't do as good a job as the Abrams (ahem) in the photo above, but it'll do a good-enough job for CM, in my experience. The experiences of others seem to differ.

 

Thanks man. 

[Oleksandr]

Not a hack and not even a new thing but still oftenly ignored - this simple rule - > while one element is moving another element is providing cover. 

It is especially important while operating with high value units such as: sappers, RPOs, etc. 

So for example if you moving with your sappers towards certain place in a wall what you will take down - make sure that there are units watching in that direction (breach direction). Usually I would say - put a vehicle to watch that future hole to appear but sometimes it is impossible to do, sometimes its only infantry there so at least put few fighters to look in that direction. 

I know its simple, I know most of you probably know that, I know that its obvius, but - I thought it would be nice to mention it once again. 

Edited February 28, 2018 by Oleksandr

[Oleksandr]

Going on a break from posting (got a lot of stuff to share but not so much of a free time). In a meanwhile I would like to wish to all of you to be more friendly to one another, the spirit of sharing is better than spirit of fighting. Enjoy your battles, share your experiences, and work together! Love you all (Even those who hates me lol)! 

 

[Marwek77 aka Red Reporter]

On 28. 2. 2018 at 5:54 PM, Oleksandr said:

Questions:

- where do i get this soldier skin? Are there more like this?

- how it is possible, that his AKSU has scope??? Is it Kashtan? And is it only mod or is it really in game and working???

Edited March 2, 2018 by Marwek77 aka Red Reporter

[A Canadian Cat]

6 hours ago, Marwek77 aka Red Reporter said:

Questions:

- where do i get this soldier skin? Are there more like this?

Check out @Oleksandr's mods here: http://cmmodsiii.greenasjade.net/?author=79

I strongly suspect the one you want is there somewhere.