difference between grenadiers and standard.

[Mark_McLeod]

Just wondering whats the difference between buying a grenadier company and selecting standard or grenadier? also whats the difference between them and panzergrenadiers? is there a difference or is just a name? 

[IICptMillerII]

The difference between standard and grenadier is that when you select grenadier in the editor, it gives one of the German riflemen a rifle grenade. Standard means that no one in the German squad will have a rifle grenade. 

Panzergrenadiers were traditionally halftrack infantry. The biggest difference they bring is that they have 2 MG42s per squad instead of the standard 1. As you can imagine this gives them quite the advantage in firepower. 

There may be other small differences that others will likely point out, but I believe that covers the big differences. 

[Mark_McLeod]

ok thank you

[Bud Backer]

You know, I wondered about this for ages and never caught on until now. Cool!

[Mark_McLeod]

I find it interesting to that even tho the grenadiers get the rifle grenade they are cheaper than the standard.

[Bulletpoint]

4 hours ago, Mark_McLeod said:

I find it interesting to that even tho the grenadiers get the rifle grenade they are cheaper than the standard.

Did you make sure they are all the same experience level etc.? Did you make sure they have the same equipment level? Do the squads have the same number of men?

[MikeyD]

I recall years back, perhaps in relation to CMRT, Steve responded to a TO&E complaint "Don't blame me, I didn't organize their army that way!" ...or words to that effect. It seems a lot of TO&E research involves frequent use of the phrase "What in hell were they thinking?!"

Edited June 5, 2017 by MikeyD

[Duckman]

All German infantry were renamed grenadiers mid-war to boost morale, with the exception of the fusilier (light infantry) company in each battalion. Panzergrenadiers were always called panzergrenadiers I think.

As for the rifle grenades, I wonder how much they were actually used. I don't think I've ever seen a picture of one used in combat. That's not exactly proof they weren't used, but with most other weapons you can find action photos quite easily.

[LongLeftFlank]

The concept of Grenadiers as "heavy" (assault) infantry and Fusiliers as "light" (skirmishers) formations, together with other legacy designations such as Carabiniere, became the European standard with Frederick and Napoleon. However, they date back even further to the Gunpowder Revolution, where arquebusiers, caliverists, musketeers, etc. displaced crossbowmen and were distinct from the masses of pikemen, halberdiers, etc., as well as from the artillerists, bombardiers, etc. 

From the start, grenadiers were literally chosen men, tough guys whose job was to get close in and throw "grenadoes" to disrupt the enemy front, accepting the huge losses they'd incur en route. Later, the "spirit of the bayonet" displaced grenades as the preferred tool for breaking enemy ranks, and grenadiers were selected for intimidating size and esprit de corps, since close assault remained a hazardous task. 

This Napoleon fansite has some factoids on this topic, but I wouldn't take it as gospel truth either (caveat l'empereur):

http://www.napolun.com/mirror/web2.airmail.net/napoleon/infantry_Napoleon.html

[Xorg_Xalargsky]

On 06/06/2017 at 5:15 AM, Duckman said:

As for the rifle grenades, I wonder how much they were actually used. I don't think I've ever seen a picture of one used in combat. That's not exactly proof they weren't used, but with most other weapons you can find action photos quite easily.

Well, the grenades were produced in the millions. You can also find photographs rather easily although an order of magnitude less than other infantry weapons. My guess at the relative rarity of those is that they were removed from the rifle outside of battle.

 

[Apocal]

On 6/6/2017 at 5:15 PM, Duckman said:

As for the rifle grenades, I wonder how much they were actually used. I don't think I've ever seen a picture of one used in combat. That's not exactly proof they weren't used, but with most other weapons you can find action photos quite easily.

Senator Daniel Inouye, a Medal of Honor recipient, had his arm mostly blown off by one, so clearly someone was making use of them as late as 1945.

[Michael Emrys]

On June 6, 2017 at 2:15 AM, Duckman said:

I don't think I've ever seen a picture of one used in combat.

I have. Relative to pictures of soldiers doing other things, they are not many, but they do exist.

Michael

[RockinHarry]

On 16.6.2017 at 7:48 AM, Xorg_Xalargsky said:

Well, the grenades were produced in the millions. You can also find photographs rather easily although an order of magnitude less than other infantry weapons. My guess at the relative rarity of those is that they were removed from the rifle outside of battle.

 

Exactly. Introduced and distributed in large numbers, beginning in april/may 1942 until 1945. Still quantities are to be found on 1945 battlefields, both the cup launcher devices, as well as the 30mm HE and AP40 Heat grenades. Wished the grenadiers in CM would carry their usual pack of 15 grenades each, instead of rarely a handful.