Strong Europe Tank Challenge

[exsonic01]

https://www.army.mil/article/187584/

This year's winner is Austria. Second is Germany, US is third. US played better than last year. 

But one thing we need to make sure is that this kind of competition would never really tells anything about meaningful specs of tanks. And it never tell us about the which team is good at exam. Like the interview mentioned, it is about teamwork, training, and interoperability.  

[Armorgunner]

Thanks, but the most interesting question. How did the Ukrainian team with the T-64 do. There was no answer to that in the article.

Verygood information though. I just want more info 

 

 

 

Edited May 12, 2017 by Armorgunner

[Sgt.Squarehead]

Well they clearly weren't in the top half of the not entirely huge field of entrants.....Looks like they took their disappointment out on someone's car to me. 

[Ivanov]

3 hours ago, Armorgunner said:

Thanks, but the most interesting question. How did the Ukrainian team with the T-64 do. There was no answer to that in the article.

Verygood information though. I just want more info 

 

 

 

The French came fourth, Poles fifth ( one of their tanks broke down ), the Ukrainians were last. There's a rumour that the Austrians were practising for months before the competition.

Edited May 13, 2017 by Ivanov

[Artemis258]

That is a strange use of the English language right there, a "friendship shoot". I know it refers to a friendly day at the range (not rated for competition?) but the construct is weird... 

immediately conjures, in my mind, either; 
"We became friends, so I shot him" 

"we became friends, so we went and shot (someone else)" 

 

[Armorgunner]

5 hours ago, Sgt.Squarehead said:

Well they clearly weren't in the top half of the not entirely huge field of entrants.....Looks like they took their disappointment out on someone's car to me. 

[Haiduk]

3 hours ago, Ivanov said:

The French came fourth, Poles fifth ( one of their tanks broke down ), the Ukrainians were last. There's a rumour that the Austrians were practising for months before the competition.

Looks like you have seen a photo of PDA with preliminary results, where Ukrainian team had 750 points, but final results next: Austria, Germany, USA, France, Ukraine, Poland

Edited May 13, 2017 by Haiduk

[Armorgunner]

3 hours ago, Ivanov said:

The French came fourth, Poles fifth ( one of their tanks broke down ), the Ukrainians were last. There's a rumour that the Austrians were practising for months before the competition.

Thanks. I was hoping for a better results. But at the same time not. 

[Armorgunner]

5 minutes ago, Haiduk said:

Looks like you have seen a photo of PDA with preliminary results, where Ukrainian team had 750 points, but final results next: Austria, Germany, USA, France, Ukraine, Poland

Thats the final results?

[Haiduk]

35 minutes ago, Armorgunner said:

Thats the final results?

Yes.

Each team was passing 12 tasks. For tasks "platoon firing in offensive" and "platoon firing in defense" temas can take per 500 points. Call of fire - 700 points. Other tasks give per 50 points. 

I have insider photo of preliminary results of UKR team in offensive/defensive. Our vis-a-vis in offensive task was US team and our results were not so bad. In defense task target area set fire, competitions was stopped and five targets, which our team hit after ignition were not counted in our score. 

Some tasks were atypical for Ukrainian army. For example target spotting & artillery call - our tankers havn't such duty on battlefield. Or pistol shooting - our crews has AKS-74U. Also some other NATO standard tasks turned out unfamiliar for us. In last day we occupied 4th place with French team, but physical tests results downed us to 5th.

Alas, from competition program was excluded 5 km firing and night shooting. Our team had upgradedd T-64BV with IR sights for commander and gunner and GPS navigation system, but were unable to check capabilities of sights in tasks in comparison with other tanks  

Edited May 13, 2017 by Haiduk

[exsonic01]

17 minutes ago, Haiduk said:

Yes.

Each team was passing 12 tasks. For tasks "platoon firing in offensive" and "platoon firing in defense" temas can take per 500 points. Other tasks give per 50 points. 

I have insider photo of preliminary results of UKR team in offensive/defensive. Our vis-a-vis in offensive task was US team and our results were not so bad. In defense task target area set fire, competitions was stopped and five targets, which our team hit after ignition were not counted in our score. 

Some tasks were atypical for Ukrainian army. For example target spotting & artillery call - our tankers havn't such duty on battlefield. Or pistol shooting - our crews has AKS-74U. Also some other NATO standard tasks turned out unfamiliar for us. In last day we occupied 4th place with French team, but physical tests results downed us to 5th.

Alas, from competition program was excluded 5 km firing and night shooting. Our team had upgradedd T-64BV with IR sights for commander and gunner and GPS navigation system, but were unable to check capabilities of sights in tasks in comparison with other tanks  

Very interesting story. Any other stories behind this contest from Ukraine platoon?  

And what happened to Poland? They did well last year... 

Edited May 13, 2017 by exsonic01

[Haiduk]

Look also at "range determintaion" results. Polish team has Leo 2A5, Austrians have Leo 2A4, Germas Leo 2A6. Looks like Polish team hasn't experience in usage of Leopard. I have read somewhere, that exploitation of Leopards was too expensive fopr Poland and its was moved in reserve. Possibly this is a reason of sixth place and result would be better if they came on PT-91. Possible because this reason we participated on T-64BV, but not on BM Oplot, because we havn't experienced crews for Oplot platoon. 

Upd: there is unconfirmed info, that Polish tank(s) have problem with fire control system in one day, possibly this caused of poor result

Edited May 13, 2017 by Haiduk

[Ivanov]

8 hours ago, Haiduk said:

Looks like you have seen a photo of PDA with preliminary results, where Ukrainian team had 750 points, but final results next: Austria, Germany, USA, France, Ukraine, Poland

I have an info directly from the 34th Brigade, that they were not last but they wouldn't say which place exactly they scored, due to a gentleman's agreement, that only the first three places would be disclosed. If you look at the preliminary results, Poles still don't have points for the offensive ops - they scored 430 points with three tanks instead of four because one tank was out of the competition.

Edited May 13, 2017 by Ivanov

[Ivanov]

8 hours ago, Haiduk said:

Looks like Polish team hasn't experience in usage of Leopard. I have read somewhere, that exploitation of Leopards was too expensive fopr Poland and its was moved in reserve. Possibly this is a reason of sixth place and result would be better if they came on PT-91.

Not true. Leopards are used extensively by the Polish army and they are in much better technical state, than the PT-91's.  They are also not really more expensive to operate. The main problem right now, is that half of the Leopards are undergoing a modernisation process to the 2PL standard. Also, thanks to a idiotic decision of our psycho minister of the defence, one of the battalions from the 34th Brigade will be given up to the 1st Brigade near Warsaw, away from the logistics chain and the training facilities. 

Edited May 13, 2017 by Ivanov

[FoxZz]

Range determination was done without any laser range finding device, it was meant to test crew ability to estimate distances.

I wonder what were the final results in each exercise and what were the coefficient for each of them.

Also, I wonder how they evaluated the physical training considering some crews are only 3 per tank.