Omaha Beach West

[carcer]

.......so....college semester finally finished. Been working on an Omaha Beach map. The western sector. Curious what some people's thoughts and opinions are on invasion maps and what can potentially make them fun and tactical- contradictory to the idea of flood rush the dead space. I'll throw up some screens in the next couple days. I found a neat way to have an invasion fleet horizon texture and an even more cool, plus convincing way to have landing craft. You all will love it. Might have to go texture hunting though as the Higgins steel plates are from Men of War. Any help with reference photos and force compositions will be greatly appreciated. Dog Red - Charlie (maybe Fox Green?). I've already mined Steven Zaloga and critical hits board game. I'll provide more details when I can such as goals and ideas for balance.

Levi

[carcer]

Couldn't help it here is a teaser of a very very rough idea of what I'm work with. https://goo.gl/photos/EDggQqzNSecdju3A9

Edited May 11, 2017 by carcer
link

[para]

nice looking forward to more info

[Bulletpoint]

I don't think landing craft are so important to have, but I'd like to see the allies start in the water and have to wade in. For some reason all the D-day scenarios I played started the allies out on dry sand, but the engine can easily do shallow water.

[carcer]

Sweet, will definitely go for shallow water. Here's some pics of landing craft I've been playing with for ambiance.

https://goo.gl/photos/TYYBtG6iw9zm4y5v8

https://goo.gl/photos/coepgTSdw7Crb1WEA

Game-play wise only about half or so arriving units would probably start out in these as the rest will start off in the shallows.

[carcer]

Sweet, will definitely go for shallow water. Here's some pics of landing craft I've been playing with for ambiance.

https://goo.gl/photos/TYYBtG6iw9zm4y5v8

https://goo.gl/photos/coepgTSdw7Crb1WEA

Game-play wise only about half or so arriving units would probably start out in these as the rest will start off in the shallows.

[NPye]

LC's look great and will add to the flavour of any amphibious landing. Cheers when can we get our hands on them?

 

[Bulletpoint]

8 hours ago, carcer said:

Sweet, will definitely go for shallow water. Here's some pics of landing craft I've been playing with for ambiance.

https://goo.gl/photos/TYYBtG6iw9zm4y5v8

https://goo.gl/photos/coepgTSdw7Crb1WEA

Game-play wise only about half or so arriving units would probably start out in these as the rest will start off in the shallows.

Those landing craft are just really clever and creatively done  So simple, I wonder why nobody thought of that before. Isn't that what people call genius?

[JonS]

Really nice work on the map, and the LCs look great.

Joe Balkoski's books provide some great vignettes, as well as some excellent OoB, plus time-of-entry and place-of entry data.

Also, scroll down to "HISTORICAL INFORMATION, 29th INFANTRY DIVISION" here:http://www.angelfire.com/md/29division/

 

Edit: one of the issues you'll face, I think, is that the shore line is static - you can't simulate the tide flowing in. Depending on how you set things up that may or may not be a problem. For numerous reasons, including the tide, I'd suggest concentrating on a number vignettes in time and space, rather than trying to model The Whole Damn Thing(tm).

Edited May 12, 2017 by JonS

[grunt_GI]

Ditto...very well done on the landing craft...and the map looks fantastic.

[Sgt.Squarehead]

Great job on the LCs.....Very creative indeed. 

[Hardradi]

Very clever with the landing craft and nice looking map.

[Bulletpoint]

-

Edited May 13, 2017 by Bulletpoint

[DesertFox]

Cool idea with the landing crafts. Very Nice! Looking forward to the finished product.

cheers

[rocketman]

Looks interesting for sure. Anticipation level rising

If you want the German perspective on the battle check out:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Normandiefront-D-Day-Saint-Lo-Through-German-ebook/dp/B0078XH7E4/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1494685299&sr=8-1&keywords=normandiefront

 

[Wicky]

 I recall playing a CM1 CMBO D-Day third-party scenario with offshore floating landmass 'battleships' loaded with artillery spotters...

[JonS]

41 minutes ago, Wicky said:

 I recall playing a CM1 CMBO D-Day third-party scenario with offshore floating landmass 'battleships' loaded with artillery spotters...

There's a similar use in one of the CMFI campaign scenarios.

[carcer]

I appreciate all the comments. Thank you JonS and Rocketman for the links and I think I have an idea that might work for tide line. Going for full Western side of map because of the fields of fire but will include smaller scenarios from the master map and will try to make a couple small ones for the Eastern side as well. Tomorrow I'll try to put out the landing craft textures as well as a horizon set for an invasion fleet (idea based on someone else's mod for Shock Force).

Details:

A more accurate portrayal of Omaha Beach in contrast to the main narratives from film and other video games

Focus on Western Side of the beach with full map battle and then smaller map scenarios to cover the same battle based off of the critical hit board game scenarios

Map in the 70-80% range of historical accuracy

Combination of close combat bloody Omaha mod, iron front 44, and the board game Omaha from critical hit

Tactically focused such as clearing lanes in mine fields for tanks (ideas welcome)

Compressed time line and unit composition

Based off of critical hit then adjusted for historical accuracy and game-play

Able to run with my computer specs for turn-based (I think my CPU is only around 3.2)

The smaller scenarios will be a lot less computer intensive

3 phases for the project

1: rough placement, correct topography, strong-points, and stand in housing positions

2: detail map sector by sector and in entirety based on photos and game-play touch ups

3. Mission plan and unit balancing

Other details:

Going for look and feel of the beach especially in light to combat mission’s mod Bloody Omaha. The beach will look like carnage even though technically no units have landed yet, there will be landing craft, an invasion fleet in the horizon box, with crates and debris on the beach. Beach obstacles will have to compromise to not lag game down. Mostly turning towards close combat placement of hedgehogs with most concentration around Dog Red and Green. The rest of the beach I’ll try to stagger. For representation and game-play could alternate between obstacles and mines in a staggered fashion so that the player will need to clear a few lanes on the beach. Question if mines on the beach should be AT or mixed. The beach will probably have to have various low dunes and such for cover to add to survivability of the game engine as well as tactical elements. Example can be found in the Utah mission of US campaign in the game.

 

[JonS]

Mines on the beach should be exclusively a-tk I believe. On the bluff have some a-pers.

Also, the a-tk mines on the beach were there to counter landing craft, and were attached to the anti-landing-craft obstacles. They were  NOT there for the tanks, which came as a complete surprise to the Germans. The engineers were tasked with clearing paths through the obstacles for the landing craft as the tide rose, they weren't clearing minefields for the tanks. Bear in mind that in weeks and months before 6 June the beach was being inundated by the tide twice every day. That's a somewhat obvious statement, but the point is that the sea shore is a harsh environment which would quickly uncover, wash away, or render inoperative any mines 'buried' in the shingle, or anything less robust than an a-tk mine. The Germans knew that, of course, so they didn't lay minefields on the beach below the high tide line.

The clearance of obstacles by the Gapping Teams helped the tanks maneuver too of course, but their main problems were

1. getting to shore at all after being dropped into the ocean too far out (which you could simulate with staggered arrival and only having the correct number of tanks actually make it to shore), 
2. surviving direct fire from the a-tk guns (which you could simulate with ... a-tk guns!), and
3. maintaining mobility in the very tricky shingle without getting bogged/ immobilised (which you could simulate by setting the ground conditions to muddy or very muddy).

Another book recommendation for you: https://www.bookdepository.com/Cracking-Hitlers-Atlantic-Wall-Richard-C-Anderson/9780811705899?ref=grid-view&qid=1494838221635&sr=1-2  Despite nominally only covering 1st Assault Brigade, RE (and therefore the assault of the British beaches) it actually goes in to great detail on all five beaches, from both the attackers perspective, and the defenders. I think you'll find it invaluable (Full disclosure: I helped Rich with editing).

 

Oh,  and remember; OMAHA was actually shingle,  not sand.

Edited May 15, 2017 by JonS

[Bulletpoint]

2 hours ago, carcer said:

The beach will look like carnage even though technically no units have landed yet

Wouldn't it be better to start fresh and let the player's actions create their own carnage?

[carcer]

 

ww2 Invasion pack

https://goo.gl/photos/DaPNJNTSDkaZmntC9

http://www.mediafire.com/?jltma98ggb11t

Edited May 16, 2017 by carcer
difficulty attaching photos to show in post

[carcer]

On 5/15/2017 at 2:41 AM, Bulletpoint said:

Wouldn't it be better to start fresh and let the player's actions create their own carnage?

I guess I am over stating 'carnage'. What I really mean is to capture a sort of ambiance of a landing which would include having a few boxes and barrels, a few craters from the pre-barrage and the landing craft, but all of these elements to a minimized representation. Will probably stick with critical hits US support with 2 destroyers available towards the end of the scenario; skiping the pre-barrage as part of it. Going for an approach that Close Combat has done with static maps: 

JonS I'll definitely use the suggestions above and focus on the concept of bogging down and trying to survive the AT guns which should be fun since most of them are 50mm. I found a great way to break up the beach between shallows, streams, sand, and shingle where it's evident where the tide lines are after looking at some photos. I'll post some screens when I can. I had no idea you were the author for the scenario design tutorials. I'm starting to read through them to take the same kind of approach which is extremely helpful.

I'm curious if the ships in the horizon I made from the combat mission support icons are too large or not? I also can't figure out how to stick posters directly to walls as another possibility to add to the landing craft is replace posters with doors, life saver buoys and such. Later I'll update the pack with something that can replicate the anti-landing craft sticks and camo nets for bunkers.

[JonS]

18 minutes ago, carcer said:

capture a sort of ambiance of a landing which would include having a few boxes and barrels, a few craters from the pre-barrage

I'm down with the idea of having a few boxes and crates scattered about the place. As long as you do it with a light touch I think it'll be fine. Yeah, it's not strictly 'correct', but I don't think many folks will even notice much until their infantry get to those locations.

The craters, on the other hand ... the pre-invasion bombardment uniformly missed. Not just the individual pillboxes and WNs, but the whole damn beach. The aerial bombardment certainly all missed, landing a mile or three inland. On the other hand, a few craters scattered about would be ok - especially if you feel they're important in terms of providing the US infantry a wee bit of cover as they straggle across the beach. Don't be too much of a slave to history if you feel it gets in the way of the 'story' you want to tell.

I also can't figure out how to stick posters directly to walls as another possibility to add to the landing craft is replace posters with doors, life saver buoys and such.

I'm pretty sure you can't. I tried adding posters to some terrain features in a scenario once, but it turned out they'd only adhere to building walls.

 

Thanks for the comments on the Scen Design thing - I'm really glad folks are still finding it useful

[Bulletpoint]

2 hours ago, carcer said:

What I really mean is to capture a sort of ambiance of a landing which would include having a few boxes and barrels

I think such things were only brought ashore much later? In my view as a potential player of your scenario, going ashore on the first wave and finding supplies already landed would seem odd to me.

Also: Good old Close Combat. I really liked the way each map would be hand painted so that there would be lots of unique details.. The modular approach of CM also has its merits, but those old maps just looked very atmospheric with their winding trenches and curved roads etc.

[NPye]

35 minutes ago, Bulletpoint said:

IThe modular approach of CM also has its merits, but those old maps just looked very atmospheric with their winding trenches and curved roads etc.

Curved roads, is it that difficult, as they've semi done it with the rail lines. Would really improve mapping. Cheers