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Ukrainian Side is Seriously Underpowered

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Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, Sgt.Squarehead said:

The Ukraine handed the US their bottoms on a plate in the tactical exercise I linked to at the top of the page, yet they came stone-last in the Strong Europe Challenge. 

Only one reason of our team failing is bad reapair works on T-84 by Malyshev factory. Almost all tanks have problems with fire control system, in one autoloder has jammed, one has problems with gun stabilizer etc. Also crews have only month to learn handling with these tanks. So failing with gunfire moved us on last place, when in other competitions we have results, close to other participants. 

Edited by Haiduk

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13 hours ago, Sgt.Squarehead said:

Some T-72AVs, T-72B1s and so on would really help the game IMHO.....You could chuck in a bevvy of T-80s too for me, not really used by either side yet, but they're cool as you like!  B)

5w2hbq3.jpg

There may be a prize if you can identify the tank above.  ;)

My best guess would be T-80UK. And -- absolutely, T-72 variants for UKR and T-80 variants for RF. Maybe a CEV for US. xD

Also... does UKR have any BMP-3s?

21 hours ago, DougPhresh said:

That's my thinking as well. It's with courage and tenacity that Ukraine has held out so long, not weapons systems.

I hope any future module will bring the hundreds of BMP-1s and BTR-80s to the UKR side, not the latest gizmos that have a single unit in service. Heck, even for support D-30 towed guns make up a huge part of the UKR inventory but are absent.

Yeah, dude. I'd love to see field-modifications of soviet-era BMPs and BTRs. BTR-4, despite its fancy modern windows, doors and guns, lacks some good ol' cage armour. RPGs are the #1 cause of booms. I have no doubt that BMP-1s and BTR-70s can do what I need them to do.

I had an Oplot M, or two, panic due to enemy autocannon fire (across the frontal arc). They retreated, and were out of contact for a turn or two. I was flabbergasted. They gave the creme-du-la-creme T-84s to guys who should be roaming polygons?

But then again, that's a 4 mission Campaign. Hopefully the next UKR campaign I'll play will feature more believable levels of experience and motivation for troops.

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Posted (edited)

UKR apparently has 4 BMP-3s.
 

e: I wouldn't mind scenarios with green, poorly motivated Ukrainian troops (a recurring issue in the Donbas War) if they were also ill equipped. As you said, giving fancy toys to troops that break and run at the first sign of trouble hardly happens outside of Arab armies.

Edited by DougPhresh

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2 hours ago, DerKommissar said:

Also... does UKR have any BMP-3s?

Four. One of them was in military academy, other were stored. When war has started its were repaired, as minimum two of them were in ATO zone in 30th mech.brigade. They havn't losses. But anyway there is no sense to put BMP-3 in the game for Ukraine 

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53 minutes ago, Haiduk said:

Four. One of them was in military academy, other were stored. When war has started its were repaired, as minimum two of them were in ATO zone in 30th mech.brigade. They havn't losses. But anyway there is no sense to put BMP-3 in the game for Ukraine 

That's a shame. As I found the hard way -- those things are beasts. No wonder they are so widely exported.

797541-yemen-2.jpg?modified_at=143887709

1 hour ago, Sgt.Squarehead said:

Nope.....Count the smoke dischargers.  ;)

I can count 4.

T-80UK_at_VTTV-Omsk-2009_-02.jpg

T-80UK has 6... T-80U had 4. Export variants had 4 (export variants didn't have that MG mount). T-80UD had 4.

I'm guessing this is a post-soviet variant. T-84s have the smoke discharges behind the side ERA.

Couldn't find any T-80s with 4 smokes and shtora boxes.

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All the tech in the world can't save you if you break and run. I think it's important for the expansion to focus on the soft factors, really flesh out the UKR and RUS rosters, less emphasis on gadgets and more on simple but effective systems like the 2B9 Vasilek.

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, DerKommissar said:

I'm guessing this is a post-soviet variant. T-84s have the smoke discharges behind the side ERA.

Yup, it's a T-80UA.....There appears to be more than one type, this was the top of the stack variant with the full Shtora array and (I believe) improved optics (both of which were normally only found on command tanks). 

Essentially it's a T-80U upgraded to the level of a T-80UK but without the extra comms gear.....Or to put it another way 'One bad mofo!' (for its day).  ;)

2 hours ago, DerKommissar said:

That's a shame. As I found the hard way -- those things are beasts. No wonder they are so widely exported.

Iraq just bought them to go alongside their T-90SA:

http://weaponews.com/news/23797-the-first-batch-of-bmp-3-is-already-in-iraq.html

While CM:SF may not have got Syria exactly right for the time, it was remarkably prescient over what would be found in the general region in the decades that followed.....With some mucking about in the editor and a few mods it's possibly to represent quite an array of Middle Eastern nations.  B)

Edited by Sgt.Squarehead

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On 6/23/2018 at 4:19 PM, Sgt.Squarehead said:

The Oplot's ability to kill Russian tanks in the Ukraine, all the way from Thailand, is truly remarkable.  :P

 

Well the Ukrainians just naturally evolved the Soviet GLATGM concept and gave it "legs" ;)

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18 hours ago, DougPhresh said:

All the tech in the world can't save you if you break and run. I think it's important for the expansion to focus on the soft factors, really flesh out the UKR and RUS rosters, less emphasis on gadgets and more on simple but effective systems like the 2B9 Vasilek.

We often talk about the game in terms of the reality on the ground today but don't forget that BFC have created a fictitious back story that includes a non trivial effort to modernize the Ukrainian army before the conflict starts. So, we can feel free to try to simulate on the ground now scenarios but the game design defaults are *not* simulating that.

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4 hours ago, IanL said:

We often talk about the game in terms of the reality on the ground today but don't forget that BFC have created a fictitious back story that includes a non trivial effort to modernize the Ukrainian army before the conflict starts. So, we can feel free to try to simulate on the ground now scenarios but the game design defaults are *not* simulating that.

Good point! Would be interesting to see the next Ukraine campaign focusing on the "second rate troops" fighting it out with the top of the line Russian armored spearheads.

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Posted (edited)
On 6/26/2018 at 4:24 PM, Sgt.Squarehead said:

Yup, it's a T-80UA.....There appears to be more than one type, this was the top of the stack variant with the full Shtora array and (I believe) improved optics (both of which were normally only found on command tanks). 

Essentially it's a T-80U upgraded to the level of a T-80UK but without the extra comms gear.....Or to put it another way 'One bad mofo!' (for its day).  ;)

Iraq just bought them to go alongside their T-90SA:

http://weaponews.com/news/23797-the-first-batch-of-bmp-3-is-already-in-iraq.html

While CM:SF may not have got Syria exactly right for the time, it was remarkably prescient over what would be found in the general region in the decades that followed.....With some mucking about in the editor and a few mods it's possibly to represent quite an array of Middle Eastern nations.  B)

Well, you have truly outdone me there, then. I have never heard of a T-80UA. The concept makes sense, it's a non-command T-80UK. When you want a thermal imager, but don't want radios. Reading more about the T-80 makes me wish there was a decent sim of it. Closest thing I've played have been the red hammer Arma 3 mods.

Cool source: https://thesovietarmourblog.blogspot.com/2016/02/t-80-gambol.html

Includes anything you could possibly want to know. From sighting systems to composite armour compositions to the crew compartments of various variants. It only dawned on me, now -- that NATO variants are MUCH easier to identify. Less variants, and more differences between them.

T-90SA is the welded turret export variant (no shtora), right? I've been hearing a lot about the Saudis buying 900 BMP 3s. I find that hard to believe. I think all of the RF has about 900 BMP 3s.

My main issue with the BMP3 is the weird way that the infantry has to disembark. I think it was better in the BMP 1 and 2s. 

Edited by DerKommissar

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That still looks like an 80UK with a Plissa to me. The antenna position behind the commander's hatch is right behind like on a command variant instead of slightly centered like on regular 80Us. 

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1 hour ago, DerKommissar said:

My main issue with the BMP3 is the weird way that the infantry has to disembark. I think it was better in the BMP 1 and 2s. 

Well, except for the fuel tanks in the back doors that is....That killed a lot of Iraqi Republican Guard  infantry while they were dismounting in Desert Storm.

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33 minutes ago, Splinty said:

Well, except for the fuel tanks in the back doors that is....That killed a lot of Iraqi Republican Guard  infantry while they were dismounting in Desert Storm.

Right, I almost forgot that was a thing. I remember hearing that the lifehack for that was to fill them up with sand.

1 hour ago, BTR said:

That still looks like an 80UK with a Plissa to me. The antenna position behind the commander's hatch is right behind like on a command variant instead of slightly centered like on regular 80Us. 

What's a Plissa?

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19 hours ago, Splinty said:

Well, except for the fuel tanks in the back doors that is....That killed a lot of Iraqi Republican Guard  infantry while they were dismounting in Desert Storm.

On the other hand, fuel tanks work well as a spall liner, under the right conditions.

The BMP-3 is a giant leap forward over the earlier BMPs.

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