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Ukrainian Side is Seriously Underpowered

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Not sure if this was mentioned yet - but at the end of the video they say Ukraine is going to receive a shipment of 10 "modernized" T-80s! :D

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Meaning what exactly.....Upgraded T-80UDs?  As far as I can tell Ukraine sold all but a handful of its fleet to Pakistan (320 sold of about 350 IIRC).  

Or are Ukraine perhaps doing their own upgrade of the T-80BV, along the lines of Russia's new T-80BVM?  

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4 hours ago, Sgt.Squarehead said:

Meaning what exactly.....Upgraded T-80UDs?  As far as I can tell Ukraine sold all but a handful of its fleet to Pakistan (320 sold of about 350 IIRC).  

Or are Ukraine perhaps doing their own upgrade of the T-80BV, along the lines of Russia's new T-80BVM?  

No. This is T-80B/BV. GTD-1000 engine is substituting on 6TD. Possibly like on upgraded T-64BV will mount digital radio, GPS and thermal sights. As If in Ukraine T-64 and T-80 have the same modernization program. These tanks more probably for 36th Marines brigade, which tank battlion will change own T-64BV on T-80B(V) 

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Posted (edited)

Thanks Haiduk. 

The reason for my post was to show a glimpse of hope for seeing a T-80 in Black Sea. 

Edited by Artkin

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I was toying around with Russian armor... the BM Oplot seems to outperform everything else. Era consistently defeated 100mm and 125mm apfsds rounds. The only penetrations were the lower hull. 

Even when penetrated, tank seems to explode rarely in comparison with T72B3 and even T90AM.

T90A seems to have a stronger turret than the T90AM even without frontal turret era. This is the best Russian tank. Exploded less often than T72B3 but not by much.

T90AM was penetrated a lot in the mantlet and in the lower hull. Sometimes upper hull. Exploded often. 

T64BV ERA seemed to defeat apfsds more than Bulats. I will test this some more. Exploded often. 

T72B3 never really defeated 100mm apfsds rounds. The hull was penetrated often everywhere. Exploded often

My conclusion:

The BM Oplot and the T90A have demonstrated the highest levels of protection versus 100mm and 125mm apfsds rounds. All tests were at 1500m. This is really janky but I can confirm these are the best tanks evur! :D

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Yeah until you see an uber Abrams death star with APS swatting KH66s outta the air and laughing at battalions of APS equipped T90AMs.  Unless a tunguska gets a burst in on it before it can fire. Then theyre stuck. lol

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So, I am on the last mission of Shield of Kiev. Are there any more UKR campaigns made by users?

Oplot-M has a consistent edge over the T-72B3s. But, where it shines is infantry support. Abrams is serviceable in that regard, canister and heat rounds, mostly. Oplot-Ms are filled to the brim with both air-detonated frag rounds, as well as conventional impact fuse ones.

The result? Overwatch is devastating. If the Cossacks even dare blink, and I see it -- the building is going down. Squad running across a street? A single air-detonated frag will render them combat ineffective. With an Abrams, I mostly had to rely on the typically American trait of having too many MGs of all calibers. Yet, dedicated anti-personnel rounds were to be conserved.

I will say that the Abrams has better protection, and situational awareness. Which does make it more survivable as a breakthrough vehicle. The Oplot-M does not like being flanked -- even by infantry RPGs. I also have to say, how brilliant the RPG is -- that it can fire from inside buildings due to the two-stage rockets, very quick follow-up shots and its pretty deadly to surrounding infantry!

I've only ever found myself on the receiving end of RF tanks. T-72B3 is the economy variant. While it lacks long-range tank on tank capabilities, it's still very much a threat. The T-90A is a serious improvement in terms of protection. T-90AM is terrifying. I bumped into one in a US campaign, it stalled my advance. I had to throw everything I could at it. It was buried in ATGM craters, and still sniping my strykers.

Generally these soviet tanks have 2 great boons: a small silhouette makes them stealthy and ideal for ambush and they carry a devastating load of anti-personnel solutions.

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6 hours ago, Sublime said:

Yeah until you see an uber Abrams death star with APS swatting KH66s outta the air and laughing at battalions of APS equipped T90AMs.  Unless a tunguska gets a burst in on it before it can fire. Then theyre stuck. lol

:lol: So true!

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DerKommissar,

I have yet to toy around with the spotting capabilities of the tanks but I would assume the T90AM/BM Oplot being the best. 

So long as you keep that bottom plate safe, we agree Oplot is pretty tough :D

Additionally, I will try to test the difference in HEAT next time.

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11 hours ago, Artkin said:

Additionally, I will try to test the difference in HEAT next time.

UKR tanks in the game use 3BK18 HEAT with 500 mm RHA penetration. I also want to make many tests of tanks spotting and its "x-ray vision" in comparison with real capabilities, but this is huge amout of work...

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16 hours ago, DerKommissar said:

So, I am on the last mission of Shield of Kiev. Are there any more UKR campaigns made by users?

 

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I'm toiling through a mini-campaign about a UKR battalion trying to escape kettle & destruction by RUS/Rebel forces. It's based across a single giant map, each battle directly and geographically adjacent to the next and previous ones.

It's fundamentally designed for Real Time play. Although perfectly capable of TB style, RT is where it shines. And by "shines" I mean lit by the burning hulks of BTRs bogged down in 2 feet of mud and bracketed by unceasing RUS artillery.

Fun times!

I'm going less for narrative and more for in-media-res style - ie you don't get setup time or to repo units much, you need to roll with each battle as it happens to you. Several maps have different firefights going on at the same time, making full control (in RT)  nigh on impossible - you literally, must pick what fight to win at any given time. This is where RT might give a far better and more accurate feel to the simultaneous chaos of combat (not that I really know).

Its a slog, but I'm enjoying it..ish.

Only about 2 months left...

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On 6/23/2018 at 4:19 PM, Sgt.Squarehead said:

The Oplot's ability to kill Russian tanks in the Ukraine, all the way from Thailand, is truly remarkable.  :P

 

Oplot-T, isn't it? Is it akin to the T-84, Oplot or Oplot-M? I have to say, sending top-end armour to pre-war exports is some respectable dedication.

16 hours ago, DougPhresh said:

I think if anything, CMBS greatly inflated the fighting ability of the Ukrainians.

That's my experience from Shield of Kiev. It seems like they kitted out my entire battalion with bleeding-edge prototypes. BTR-4Es, Oplot-Ms and Corsar ATGMs are ubiquitous. They say wars are won by Joe with his rifle. That's where this battalion is weakest. I can tackle enemy material without issue, but when it comes to personnel vs personnel -- I always find myself on the receiving end.

My infantry squads really struggle with clearing out buildings and taking objectives. My squads are small, poorly led and are green as summer grass. Even if my BTRs and Oplots can wreck any entrenched infantry, they are not omniscient. If the infantry bumps into contacts, they lose their composure and often become combat ineffective. No doubt any of my vehicles on overwatch will bury the attackers. Yet, I just lost a platoon (worst case) in exchange for a RF section.

I'd much prefer a battalion of well motivated regular troops with BTR-70s and T-64s. Still, it's a really fun campaign and I enjoy playing as UKR.

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1 hour ago, DerKommissar said:

I'd much prefer a battalion of well motivated regular troops with BTR-70s and T-64s. Still, it's a really fun campaign and I enjoy playing as UKR.

That's my thinking as well. It's with courage and tenacity that Ukraine has held out so long, not weapons systems.

I hope any future module will bring the hundreds of BMP-1s and BTR-80s to the UKR side, not the latest gizmos that have a single unit in service. Heck, even for support D-30 towed guns make up a huge part of the UKR inventory but are absent.

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Some T-72AVs, T-72B1s and so on would really help the game IMHO.....You could chuck in a bevvy of T-80s too for me, not really used by either side yet, but they're cool as you like!  B)

5w2hbq3.jpg

There may be a prize if you can identify the tank above.  ;)

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Posted (edited)

That is not Ukrainian.  ;)

The Ukraine sold 320 of about 350 T-80UDs to Pakistan, but they still hold a substantial stock of T-80BVs....I believe it was recently announced that these will be refurbished (presumably because Russia are refurbishing theirs).  The Ukrainian version will receive their 'interesting' diesel engine, the Russian version has a beefed up gas-turbine and an APU.

Here's the new Russian T-80BVM:

t80bvm_l1.jpg

t80bvm_l2.jpg

PS - Here's an irony.....The Ukraine handed the US their bottoms on a plate in the tactical exercise I linked to at the top of the page, yet they came stone-last in the Strong Europe Challenge. 

Ukraine probably has more real-world combat experience against a top-end peer opponent than anybody else in Europe.....Does this suggest we are emphasizing the wrong skills in training?

 

Edited by Sgt.Squarehead

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11 hours ago, DerKommissar said:

That's my experience from Shield of Kiev. It seems like they kitted out my entire battalion with bleeding-edge prototypes. BTR-4Es, Oplot-Ms and Corsar ATGMs are ubiquitous. They say wars are won by Joe with his rifle. That's where this battalion is weakest. I can tackle enemy material without issue, but when it comes to personnel vs personnel -- I always find myself on the receiving end.

1

Same here. I was really looking forward to fighting the Russian bear with the UKR Soviet bear equipment. Maybe in the future DLCs...

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14 hours ago, DougPhresh said:

Heck, even for support D-30 towed guns make up a huge part of the UKR inventory but are absent.

You can choose 2S1 for support, this is the same barrel and ammunitions like D30, but SP variant )

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, Artkin said:

Squarehead,

Are those still in service with UKR? Thought they were sold. 

T-72s were retired in 2008, but turned to service again since the еnd of 2014. Mostly T-72B in use, for example tank battalion of 128th mountain-assault brigade has its type, because brigade lost almost all tanks during Debaltsevo battle. Despite we have handreds mathballed T-64, but in most cases its old T-64A or T-64B/BV in "rust sh...t" conditions, so was assumed a decision to turm back T-72, but its number also not so big. I have read only 300 tanks of B, B1, AV versions were selected for repair and moving to service.

T-80B/BV now in service of air-assault brigades and entering to service in Marines brigade instead of T-64BV.

 

Edited by Haiduk

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