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Oleksandr

Ukrainian Side is Seriously Underpowered

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Never Afghanistan. The terrain alone means that if Russia committed to the Donbas the same way NATO/US did to AFG then game over, Kiev. And I'm very much pro-UKR (the ordinary person, and not the oligarchs:) ). And that's just conventional forces. 

UKR can give a hell of a bloody nose to Russia, but Putin would still win -  militarily at least.

These current times remind me strongly of the interwar period, with many different technologies and tactics being tried out in many different theatres. But I fear that in a true war, a full-on, hot hot hot, 2nd chechen war style invasion of Ukraine that the rapid devastation from modern Russian artillery alone would be on the scale of a Berlin, or a Budapest, in a time frame of a week. We ain't seen nothing yet and I fear the true horror of 200+ gun massed modern rapid fire, long range tube/rocket fire support is lying in wait just beneath the surface of current events. Precision be damned, I at some point in any battle saturation fire will be considered, ordered and enacted. 

Motivation and experience are only so much use against 50K+ rounds of 152. 

 

 

Edited by kinophile

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Just keep chucking weapons at the problem..... :rolleyes:

Frankly the idea of getting my country involved in a 21st century peer to peer war, fills me with horror, but each to his own.....I guess.  :mellow:

Edited by Sgt.Squarehead

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On 28.04.2017 at 10:29 PM, Oleksandr said:

For example Ukraine got a lot of HMMWV's but everything we can see in the game is UAZ.

Basic game was issued in early 2014 and there are no "lot of Humvees" yet. Oh, except 47 M1097A2 and 10 M1097 armored in Ukraine, but its all was in VDV service, not mech.troops. The same about IR sights, UAVs and other. 

On 28.04.2017 at 10:29 PM, Oleksandr said:

It would be nice to see new mortars called "MOLOT"

Terrible quality copy of 2S11 for astronomic money. Do you know about instruction NEVER to fire with this mortar in traditional way - only with a cord, that crew have a time to cover. Because of several cases of explosion of that "new" moratrs which take several lifes...

Most of new equipment in use of VDV, so be patient and wait for module :)

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Another political **** storm? :rolleyes: Just as a background information - how UKR military looks as of 2016 compared to 2013. E.g. if D-30 losses are billed at 80% it means UKR now has just one fifth of what it had at its disposal before the conflict. Source - Military Balance by IISS.

Columns - 2016; 2013; Losses, pcs; Losses, %; Crew; Estimated crew losses (assumed all crew is lost if equipment is destroyed). Line items - Total, Artillery, SP guns, Gvozdika, Akatsia, Msta-S, Towed artillery, D-30, Giatsint-B, Msta-B, D-20, MLRS, Grad, Uragan, Smerch, Tanks, T-64 including Bulat, T-72 (returned from storage), T-80 (returned from storage), BMP, BMP-2, BMP-1, BTR, BTR-70, BTR-80...

main-qimg-8c852ed87a13274b14b54faa674cdf

Crew losses estimation is a shot way too long, certainly, but the rest... Just to wash away propaganda and come back to reality...

Edited by IMHO

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There has been no need to wash away propaganda; the majority of posters in this thread have been firmly rooted in reality. These topics need to stop cluttering the forums, they are basically loud demands for 'toys' that are either impossible to model due to lack of information (re: Armata) or are simply farfetched.

The Ukraine in-game isn't supposed to be a powerhouse, the Ukraine in-game is part of NATO for a reason. The Ukraine in-game already has two pieces of equipment (Labeled as "common" no less) that are objectively generous.

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They are, indeed, as usual. Not surprising, though. Particularly in losses of Howitzers - counter-battery fire has been particularly harsh I imagine.

Edited by Rinaldi

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1 hour ago, Rinaldi said:

There has been no need to wash away propaganda; the majority of posters in this thread have been firmly rooted in reality. These topics need to stop cluttering the forums, they are basically loud demands for 'toys' that are either impossible to model due to lack of information (re: Armata) or are simply farfetched.

The Ukraine in-game isn't supposed to be a powerhouse, the Ukraine in-game is part of NATO for a reason. The Ukraine in-game already has two pieces of equipment (Labeled as "common" no less) that are objectively generous.

Thats your personal opinion - game can evolve - and with time its concept can be change if users are putting their request on that. And they did lol now Ukraine should be a powerhouse. 

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2 hours ago, IMHO said:

Another political **** storm? :rolleyes: Just as a background information - how UKR military looks as of 2016 compared to 2013. E.g. if D-30 losses are billed at 80% it means UKR now has just one fifth of what it had at its disposal before the conflict. Source - Military Balance by IISS.

Columns - 2016; 2013; Losses, pcs; Losses, %; Crew; Estimated crew losses (assumed all crew is lost if equipment is destroyed). Line items - Total, Artillery, SP guns, Gvozdika, Akatsia, Msta-S, Towed artillery, D-30, Giatsint-B, Msta-B, D-20, MLRS, Grad, Uragan, Smerch, Tanks, T-64 including Bulat, T-72 (returned from storage), T-80 (returned from storage), BMP, BMP-2, BMP-1, BTR, BTR-70, BTR-80...

main-qimg-8c852ed87a13274b14b54faa674cdf

Crew losses estimation is a shot way too long, certainly, but the rest... Just to wash away propaganda and come back to reality...

Those numbers are not accurate at all and you took that from Wikipedia. Im not going to provide any oficcial documents and here due to info wars but Ukraine has more tanks than Germany, France, UK, and Switzerland combined (if you know the numbers there you can get an understanding of the number). And those numbers are not important acutally - they are not related to the game. Im asking developers to create more content because Ukraine is way more powerful than what is shown in the game. But I will give you a point for trying to make Ukraine look less powerful. Good try man, you failed but dont worry one day you will make some progress lol. I believe in you.

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Yes that's the crux of the dilemma, isn't it? You've dismissed everyone who has explained to you why this thread is eye-brow raising but have paraded forward your opinions rather pompously as fact with some, frankly, hilarious claims about the Ukraine's military strength.

Your opinion isn't worth much more than anyone else’s, and perhaps even less so as it's completely disassociated with the picture of the Ukraine that most can see. 

Edited by Rinaldi

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6 hours ago, Haiduk said:

Basic game was issued in early 2014 and there are no "lot of Humvees" yet. Oh, except 47 M1097A2 and 10 M1097 armored in Ukraine, but its all was in VDV service, not mech.troops. The same about IR sights, UAVs and other. 

Terrible quality copy of 2S11 for astronomic money. Do you know about instruction NEVER to fire with this mortar in traditional way - only with a cord, that crew have a time to cover. Because of several cases of explosion of that "new" moratrs which take several lifes...

Most of new equipment in use of VDV, so be patient and wait for module :)

Why only mech troops? Why should we stay in 2014? Its 2017 and people will play this game at least like 10 years i think that content should be addded. About MOLOT, your info is not accurate as well it is not cheap version of anything - it is a new model for Ukrainian miliatry - it has less metal in it and so on. Yes first few dozens of them got quality issues but its ok. Now when more of them being produced each day - their quality improved as well. And lets be honest few accidents are also can happen due to expoltation. I see that you locaded in Ukraine? You lack some proud my brother you lack some proud. Or, what is more likely is that you loyal to pro russian ideas lol Coz MOLOT is not a copy of 2S11 lol. But I agree about VDV. Another point - Im not going to feel bad or shy to request for additional content just because some of you think that what im asking is wrong. You got your opinion I got mine, we got forum to express that, and I dont you think that people who want more from certain games and willing to pay for it will be shy to ask for it. No no guys - dont let some people to back off on what you want - stand your ground gentlemen - stand your ground. 

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9 minutes ago, Oleksandr said:

Those numbers are not accurate at all and you took that from Wikipedia

Ukraine is on page 204 of 2016 report :)

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10 minutes ago, Rinaldi said:

Yes that's the crux of the dilemma, isn't it? You've dismissed everyone who has explained to you why this thread is eye-brow raising but have paraded forward your opinions rather pompously as fact with some, frankly, hilarious claims about the Ukraine's military strength.

Your opinion isn't worth much more than anyone else’s, and perhaps even less so as it's completely disassociated with the picture of the Ukraine that most can see. 

I never said that my opinion was more important than opinion of others. You guys can say what you want, I respect your right. Yet, Ukraine got one of the most massive and capable armies in Europe. Its not as big as russian army, it doesnt have nukes (yet lol) but you know different organizations and countries are helping Ukraine to improve, and its own production is raising and for me as for any gamer it would be nice to see some new additional hardware in the game. Yes I got here some people who are trying to laugh at me, and we got some people who are trying to insult Ukraine military, no worries im not made of sugar - im not going to melt under heat lol. I can contain this - as long as you keep posting here and making this threat more noticable Im ok with that. And if you think that it takes only few people who would purposly laugh at what Im saying is enough to make me regret asking for more content in this game - you are wrong. And as I said I already got some feed back on it from developing people - and Im satisfied with it lol Now if you think that you will say bad things about my country and I willl simply eat that - Im sorry I dont know how its goes in place where you leave but here men holding their ground. Especially when they right ;) 

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12 minutes ago, Oleksandr said:

Ukraine should be a powerhouse. 

I'm sorry, but this is pure fantasy. Ukraine's troops are poorly trained (There were interviews of Ukrainian troops that were sent to the front in 2014 who had only shot their rifle off once or had never shot a firearm before, and it wasn't all that long ago that Ukraine decided to step training time down again to a ludicrous 2-3 days of classroom instruction and 1-2 days of range time to learn all of Ukraine's small arms), poorly motivated (there have been Ukrainian troops who have deserted to the enemy for literal cookies because they weren't getting fed), and very poorly handled (there is no other way to describe the fiascos that were things like the blockade of Slavyansk, where the Ukrainians sat around for two months while outnumbering the defenders 15 to 1, or the First Battle of Donetsk Airport, when the DPR leadership had already fled and there were ten to fifteen rebel fighters defending the rebel government headquarters, and yet the Ukrainians failed to press their advantage).

 

In a scenario where Russia and the US are investing serious forces like in the game's storyline, Ukraine's army is more or less irrelevant. Up until late 2014, when actual battalion-strength Russian units started coming in, Ukraine could have crushed the rebels decisively and yet it continued to pull defeat out of the jaws of victory time and time again. Why do you imagine it's going to be capable of competing with the US and Russia, exactly?

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2 minutes ago, Oleksandr said:

I never said that my opinion was more important than opinion of others.

It's strongly inferred, and you functionally have frankly. Hiding behind 'it's just my opinion' after parading it out as truth is what we call being disingenuous.

For example:

3 minutes ago, Oleksandr said:

 Yet, Ukraine got one of the most massive and capable armies in Europe. Its not as big as russian army, it doesnt have nukes (yet lol)

Nothing suggests its capabilities. Operations like UNIFER in fact showcase that it hasn't even begun to lay foundations for capabilities. We're still training you gentlemen at the fireteam, squad and platoon level. This means there's a lack of basic tactical acumen. This also means that your NCOs are as green and technically unsound as your private-soldiers and that your Officers - those who aren't dead - are overwhelmed at best and apathetic at worst.

There was once a man named Saddam who had a large, seemingly well equipped Army too; and there was once a Field Marshal by the name Gamelin who had a rather large group of strapping young lads with the equipment to win...

5 minutes ago, Oleksandr said:

we got some people who are trying to insult Ukraine military

Quite literally no one has. Even the rather vocal two self-described Russophiles who have participated in this thread.

 

6 minutes ago, Oleksandr said:

 I can contain this - as long as you keep posting here and making this threat more noticable Im ok with that

...k?

7 minutes ago, Oleksandr said:

 Especially when they right ;) 

I admire your optimism. Let's look at things the UA does currently have in game versus their real life counterparts.

1) OPLOTS and BTR-4Es in active service at the Brigade level - This remains a 'cloud 9' dream for the current Ukranian military

2) Corsar company level ATGMs - Officially still under development; has yet to see combat as far as civilian's can ascertain. Prolific in game.

3) Proliferation of NATO-standard Laser Range Finders - The Ukraine is using analog, surplus systems and don't have them in near the numbers they should per TO& E in reality

4) Precision artillery - like the Corsar, and so much else of UA equipment, it exists on paper or in limited quantities. In game, it is bog-standard for a battery that would be equipped with it.

I could go on; basically the only capability the UA in reality has that the fictional timeline of BS lacks is company level drones.

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Just now, Saint_Fuller said:

I'm sorry, but this is pure fantasy. Ukraine's troops are poorly trained (There were interviews of Ukrainian troops that were sent to the front in 2014 who had only shot their rifle off once or had never shot a firearm before, and it wasn't all that long ago that Ukraine decided to step training time down again to a ludicrous 2-3 days of classroom instruction and 1-2 days of range time to learn all of Ukraine's small arms), poorly motivated (there have been Ukrainian troops who have deserted to the enemy for literal cookies because they weren't getting fed), and very poorly handled (there is no other way to describe the fiascos that were things like the blockade of Slavyansk, where the Ukrainians sat around for two months while outnumbering the defenders 15 to 1, or the First Battle of Donetsk Airport, when the DPR leadership had already fled and there were ten to fifteen rebel fighters defending the rebel government headquarters, and yet the Ukrainians failed to press their advantage).

 

In a scenario where Russia and the US are investing serious forces like in the game's storyline, Ukraine's army is more or less irrelevant. Up until late 2014, when actual battalion-strength Russian units started coming in, Ukraine could have crushed the rebels decisively and yet it continued to pull defeat out of the jaws of victory time and time again. Why do you imagine it's going to be capable of competing with the US and Russia, exactly?

No need to say sorry, you just twisted few facts (meaning that it didnt lowered my point in any way lol) - its ok man. Ukrainians are so badly trained that US and Canadian troops are retaking our experience during constant trainings. You can look info about it on a officcial Youtube channel I think its called "USArmyEurope" where viedeos of  American soldiers themselves are talking about Ukraine van be found. But its not that important because the main point of all people who are arguing with me here are simply going like "dont be funny" and then some of you guys are pulling those "pro russian" sort of positions. And its ok - you can think that russia is great, and that the concept of the game is different and so on. But what I see here  is that this game has 3 sides, those sides are very different, they got different technologies, and that if we would hit the history we will see that in strategy games 3 sides are the best number in terms of differences in game play. Think about concept of StarCraft - you got 3 sides they are different and the game play is different. Now this game is not RTS right? But, if each side would have more Unique features then the gaming experience would be 3 times more interesting. Yes the initial concept was that Ukrainian side is not that important - and thats why I was asking for more equipment because: 1 it will make the game more interesting 2 because there are tons of new equipment in Ukrainian military and 3 because initial concept can be adjusted - more content leads to more clients. Afterall more Ukrainians will play, that will bring more money man and Im surprised that I need to explain that. 

Now about why didnt we won in 2014 - because if we will destroy those kids from DPR right away that would give russia a reason to full scale invasion - which would also lead them to death because you not invading a country with 40+ millions citizens but more of Ukrainians would die. So the plan is pretty simple - we localize them, we bulking up, and we wait unitl US and other powers who promiced to protect our borders if we will give away our nukes (what we did) to sort of work on russian economy - without money nobody will pull out wars. And its working by 2014 russia got 2.3 trillion bucks per year now they have 0.7 lol it is expected that by 2020 russia will have major transformations - like soviet union lol and then Ukraine will wipe out every single DPR member from the surface of this planet. lol Ukraine basically cant loose this conflict because our boy Trump already stated that Crimea is part of Ukraine and that Donbass should be clear from Russian soldiers - and sooner or later it will happen. How can loose when its got the most powerful countries on its side? When money will never stop coming from outside? When the best equipment will keep on going to Ukraine from around the world? lol I didnt want to make it political - but enemies of Ukraine are so doomed bro. With all do respect tho lol.

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30 minutes ago, Oleksandr said:

Why only mech troops?

Because this tons of work to make all types of force structures at once. And questions of marketing ;) 

 

30 minutes ago, Oleksandr said:

Or, what is more likely is that you loyal to pro russian ideas lol Coz MOLOT is not a copy of 2S11 lol

And what difference between both models? :) How designers should to do to reflect this in game model ? Molot uses the same shells as 2B11, It looks absolutely identical. Weight (less of metal )? And is this a reason to make new model instead just rename current one ?

Edited by Haiduk

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19 minutes ago, Oleksandr said:

because if we will destroy those kids from DPR right away

"M-merely pretending".

I'm sure this is why the Ukrainian Army kept pissing away opportunity after opportunity to win the war - again, why did they sit around blockading Slavyansk for two months, outnumbering Strelkov 15 to one and vastly outgunning his men? Why did they literally fail to feed their paratroopers to the point a bunch of them crossed over to Strelkov literally for cookies? Why did they let Strelkov escape with two battalions' worth of troops driving down the highway where in any sane universe they should have been shattered with artillery? Why did they not press the advantage of the First Battle of Donetsk Airport, when the DPR leadership had already fled and there were ten to fifteen rebel fighters defending the rebel government headquarters?

The Ukrainian Army was an army in horrifying shambles which proved itself incapable of crushing the DPR even when the extent of Russian support amounted to funnelling weapons and shooting some artillery across the border. The reason for this is very simple: for 23 years Ukraine has methodically destroyed its own armed forces. Partly it was due to pro-Russian agents in government, partly due to corruption, but primarily it was due to a general attitude among the Ukrainian public that **** it, it's not like there's going to be a war, lol.
 

19 minutes ago, Oleksandr said:

Think about concept of StarCraft - you got 3 sides they are different and the game play is different. Now this game is not RTS right? But, if each side would have more Unique features then the gaming experience would be 3 times more interesting. Yes the initial concept was that Ukrainian side is not that important - and thats why I was asking for more equipment because: 1 it will make the game more interesting 2 because there are tons of new equipment in Ukrainian military and 3 because initial concept can be adjusted - more content leads to more clients. Afterall more Ukrainians will play, that will bring more money man and Im surprised that I need to explain that. 

The Ukrainian army in-game is perfectly competitive, to be quite honest with you. It's not capable of matching the other two armies in a straight-up fight, perhaps, but it is perfectly workable to use - not least because the UA already gets a bunch of stuff that it doesn't have IRL in order to make it competitive. There is really no need to start adding more stuff the Ukrainian Army doesn't have IRL when it's already competitive enough.

Edited by Saint_Fuller

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2 hours ago, Sgt.Squarehead said:

The BMPs & BTRs have had a hard time of it too, if I'm reading the data correctly. 

Someone everytime has an ache in one place, when see "Ukraine" in topics :) And starts flame. "Background information" of some weapon control monitoring mission report ? Difference,which some in Russia has interpreted as 100 % combat losses ? Ha! I don't recall... looks like Janes or some other issued the same difference data between number of jets/choppers in 2012 and in 2016 and make a conclusion Ukraine lost on Donbas about hundred of its. Nobody thought that weapon can be decomissioned, moved from reserve to 4th and 5th cathegory (rust) or sold.

SIngle way to confirm losses is a photo proofs. Russian Lostarmor.info resourse has gathered huge database of destroyed/captured weapon from both sides, so REAL CONFIRMED Ukrainain losses in hard weapon is (including captured):

tanks - 219

BMP - 458

BTR and BRDM  - 270

MTLB - 86

BMD/BTR-D - 26

SP-guns - 74

Towed guns - 92 (including MT-12)

MLRS - 38 (among its only 10 BM-27 and no one BM-30)

Everybody can see it here: http://lostarmour.info/analytics/ and check photos

Yes, losses is big, but not fantasy big as on screen above. Significant part of vehciles were destroyed on stationary positions by enemy artillery, on mines, were broken and abandoned by crews or were just abandoned in encirclements.

Edited by Haiduk

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4 minutes ago, Rinaldi said:

It's strongly inferred, and you functionally have frankly. Hiding behind 'it's just my opinion' after parading it out as truth is what we call being disingenuous.

For example:

Nothing suggests its capabilities. Operations like UNIFER in fact showcase that it hasn't even begun to lay foundations for capabilities. We're still training you gentlemen at the fireteam, squad and platoon level. This means there's a lack of basic tactical acumen. This also means that your NCOs are as green and technically unsound as your private-soldiers and that your Officers - those who aren't dead - are overwhelmed at best and apathetic at worst.

There was once a man named Saddam who had a large, seemingly well equipped Army too; and there was once a Field Marshal by the name Gamelin who had a rather large group of strapping young lads with the equipment to win...

Quite literally no one has. Even the rather vocal two self-described Russophiles who have participated in this thread.

 

...k?

I admire your optimism. Let's look at things the UA does currently have in game versus their real life counterparts.

1) OPLOTS and BTR-4Es in active service at the Brigade level - This remains a 'cloud 9' dream for the current Ukranian military

2) Corsar company level ATGMs - Officially still under development; has yet to see combat as far as civilian's can ascertain. Prolific in game.

3) Proliferation of NATO-standard Laser Range Finders - The Ukraine is using analog, surplus systems and don't have them in near the numbers they should per TO& E in reality

4) Precision artillery - like the Corsar, and so much else of UA equipment, it exists on paper or in limited quantities. In game, it is bog-standard for a battery that would be equipped with it.

I could go on; basically the only capability the UA in reality has that the fictional timeline of BS lacks is company level drones.

Look man let me gets this straight - I have nothing against you. 

"Nothing suggests its capabilities" thats an empty statement - thats your personal opinon - glad you shared it I bet you will find people who will agree with you. But thats not going to be me lol. 

"There was once a man named Saddam" - are you serious man? we were with you guys in Iraq, Ukraine also took role in Iraq war - we send there Chemical defence battalion, and we were pulling out bombs from the roads as well. And we even have some soldiers in Afghanistan right now - sappers who are destroying devices what kill people - and you compare us to Saddam? That is something man. WOW. We fight against tyranny for 3 years and you dare to compare Ukraine to regime of Saddam?!  Well thank you on that. Maybe Ukraine had not the biggest role in Western conflicts but Ukraine was always there. At this moment Ukrainian Military is going through tough period of reformation - when old doctrine is being replaced with new one, we got some units already equipped by NATO standards - and I dont see anyone giving a credit to that. Ukraine was once a peacful nation, and it got invaded by russia and it is still there, and pro russians are not able to do crap to move forward. At this point I personally take that as a sign of victory. 

Ukrainian achivements would be not possible without technical progress as well, and I've listed some of them. How dare I to ask someone to add this to the game where Ukraine is represented right? 

Jesus, "There was once a man named Saddam" really bro? Is that what Ukraine is gets assosiated in your head after 3 years of war for its unity? I really hope that your country will never have similar problems/situations. It was very nice of you to compare my words to "Saddam."

But back to what you've said. 

Hiding behind 'it's just my opinion'  - > im not hiding anything. Because born as a free man I have no fear to say what I think. And when I'm saying that it is just my opinion that is my opinion. Now your interpretation of my words can be different and I respect that.

When you list those things - I agree with you. There are many things to improve, and there are many things to change in Ukrainian military to make it more effective. That is a question of a time. I think that the real victory comes from 3 things: economy, industry, and spirit. 

Ukrainian economy will be always supported because nobody wants russian nukes closer to the borders of EU. 

Ukrainian Industry pulling out some fine pieces - and some of them would be nice to see in this game. 

Ukrainian spirit - well lets say that russian invasion of crimea was the begining of the end for current kremlin regime - he picked wrong nation to screw with. 

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1 minute ago, DougPhresh said:

Is this what Georgians were posting like in 2008?

If you have a frozen conflict with Russia, do what you can to keep it that way.

Hahaha, yes! Top banter.

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  1. Since Lostarmor is in Russian I'd explain what they do. They collect photos documenting equipment losses. So if they can't get hold of a pic they do not count it as a loss.
  2. Petro Poroshenko put UKR losses in a TV interview at 60-65% of equipment available at front lines. Dmitry Tymchuk - a very pro-Ukraine Ukrainian MP :) - said Poroshenko told a Parliamentary session that Ukraine lost 58% of all available equipment http://korrespondent.net/ukraine/3421866-ukrayna-poteriala-v-zone-ato-65-voennoi-tekhnyky
Edited by IMHO

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9 minutes ago, Saint_Fuller said:

 

8 minutes ago, Saint_Fuller said:

"M-merely pretending".

I'm sure this is why the Ukrainian Army kept pissing away opportunity after opportunity to win the war - again, why did they sit around blockading Slavyansk for two months, outnumbering Strelkov 15 to one and vastly outgunning his men? Why did they literally fail to feed their paratroopers to the point a bunch of them crossed over to Strelkov literally for cookies? Why did they let Strelkov escape with two battalions' worth of troops driving down the highway where in any sane universe they should have been shattered with artillery? Why did they not press the advantage of the First Battle of Donetsk Airport, when the DPR leadership had already fled and there were ten to fifteen rebel fighters defending the rebel government headquarters?

The Ukrainian Army was an army in horrifying shambles which proved itself incapable of crushing the DPR even when the extent of Russian support amounted to funnelling weapons and shooting some artillery across the border. The reason for this is very simple: for 23 years Ukraine has methodically destroyed its own armed forces. Partly it was due to pro-Russian agents in government, partly due to corruption, but primarily it was due to a general attitude among the Ukrainian public that **** it, it's not like there's going to be a war, lol.
 

The Ukrainian army in-game is perfectly competitive, to be quite honest with you. It's not capable of matching the other two armies in a straight-up fight, perhaps, but it is perfectly workable to use - not least because the UA already gets a bunch of stuff that it doesn't have IRL in order to make it competitive. There is really no need to start adding more stuff the Ukrainian Army doesn't have IRL when it's already competitive enough.

29 minutes ago, Rinaldi said:

No my point is that I would like to see some new hardware in the game - I dont want it to be stronger than US army. But you know T72B3 is trash lol Back to losing the chances to win - you see Ukraine was close destroy DPR it was moving towards russian border and then getting shelled by russian artyllery like in "SAPUN Gora" or "Sapun mountain" situtaion. Even France was confirming a document what stated that Ukrainian forces were shelled by russian arty from another side of the border. So if you want to know my opinon - I think its better to wait for a few years through positionated war and bulk up. Then when russia will go through its collaps destroying 30 000 DPR will be question of a few month. I even think that DPR will mostly collapse right after russian retreat. Only those who have their hands in blood will fight - but that will be a short fight. We already devided Donetsk and Luhansk - keeping some good fire control over Yasenovataya (i dont know if that recalls to anyone lol but whatever) and basically right now things are to our benefit. We getting trained by the best countries, we getting our industry back on its feet, and casualties are minimal. This year is very important it is the last year when russia got money for military operations outside of its borders. And then thats it - gameover for mister putlo lol. And yes you are right Ukraine was destroying its military because we thought that our borders will be protected by UK, US, and russia. Well we were wrong, we will not repeat same mistake again. Furthermore, Im glad to meet someone who knows some details about our conflict - Strelkov - not many people knows about that piece of crap lol Where you from man? You are welcome in my friends list. If you want to discuss something - msg me coz I cant keep replies going here for ever. After all I was asking for some new content to play with, didnt knew it will turn out like this. Now basicaly some people are saying that Ukraine sucks and then I'm like "no its not" lol 

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