Ukrainian Side is Seriously Underpowered

[Oleksandr]

Im playing this wonderful game for quite some time already, and today I've downloaded "Battle Pack 1" and was a little disappointed.

Specifically I was expecting to see some upgrades for Ukrainian side in terms of equipment. 

Ukrainian army at this moment is one of the most capable forces in Europe, it has more than 250 000 men, in cooperates with Canada, USA, Poland, Lithuania, Germany and others. More than 30 countries are providing financial, technical and training help to Ukrainian military. Moreover, it produced tons of new stuff in last 3 years. Ukrainian Military got its hands on thousands of PVS's, it got thermal scopes, 12,7 mm sniper rifles (both imported and produced), it has more than a dozen types of new vehicles, APC's and UAV's.  Yet, those are still not represented in the game. As I understood the universe of this game is sort of fictional, and that I understand. Yet, it would be nice to see at least some update on Ukrainian side within this game. I mean it would be nice to see few types of Ukrainian hardware and if its not prodused massively we could have higher prise and a sign "limited" or "experemental" in the pregame menu. You did a great job on highlighting some russian things and you did great job on making US side but could you please add some more stuff for Ukraine? I was writing to few people from battlefront team already about things like: BTR-3, KRAZ vehicles (of all kinds), rifles, sniper rifles, night vision, UAV's and so on. For example Ukraine got a lot of HMMWV's but everything we can see in the game is UAZ. It would be also nice to see some T-80 battle tanks for Ukrainian side as well. I like that with battle pack some formations were fixed tho, Ukrainian squads finally have 7 people in them (9 with BMP), but those are very small things. It would be nice to see new mortars called "MOLOT" in English they would be called  "Hammer." Actually all of those things I've listed are actually there to say that "Hey guys could you please add some hardware for Ukrainian side for a more accurate representation and balance?" Yes I'm still destroying russians on "Ellite" in this game with what you already gave us, yet, it would be very nice to see some more for Ukrainian side. Think about it, it would bring that exotic thing in the game, everyone used to US against Russia in games, Ukraine is your chance to bring up a new taste of strategy, and so on. What is nice about Ukrainian military is that it has russian base and it is improved and perfected by western technologies and its own exotic inventions. Not all of them are massively produced at the time, yes some of them are not perfect but adding them would bring some balance to the game. The biggest competition within this game in my personal subjective opinion should be between Ukraine and Russia and not between US and Russia. In a conclusion I would like to say thank you guys for making this wonderful game, what im writing here is not criticism, instead while being your huge fan and fan of your series Im simply asking for some additional Ukrainian content. I dont know what you guys will add, and what you guys will fix, I bet it will be great, but what I really would like to see as a gamer is a little more hardware for Ukrainian side. Devil is always in details, if you will add some that will be awesome. From my side I already made my decision - I will always think that Combat Mission games are the best strategy games ever. Im bying your products and all latest updated, and I will keep on doing that. But please guys, add some stuff for Ukrainian side. Best Regards - Oleksandr. 

Oh last but not least (how could I forget) : Glory To Ukraine! Yaaay!) 

[Rinaldi]

Everybody take a shot.

[Sgt.Squarehead]

I wouldn't say no to some T-80s either TBH. 

[cool breeze]

That thing looks awesome, would definitely use it.

[Chudacabra]

I think a lot of what you're asking for might be included in the first module for the game. Keep in mind that the game was released in 2015 and much of the development occurred before then.

That being said, I'm currently in a PBEM and I found that Oplots generally performed quite poorly against T-90AM's even at close ranges.

[A Canadian Cat]

The battle pack is by definition just scenarios and campaigns and QB maps. What you are asking for would be a module or vehicle pack at least.

That kind of thing is coming eventually. The thing is we don't yet have a picture of what they might contain. Or if they will stick to other countries or stay only on the fictional time line they created for the game.

[Erwin]

All good ideas. However folks have to realize that new ideas may take a couple of years (or more) to develop into product.  If a company is already thinking 5 years ahead, it's hard to suddenly interject something in the middle.

[Artkin]

I wish they had more devs

I think combining the WW2 and Modern games would open the market up enough to be able to afford them.

Edited April 28, 2017 by Artkin

[DougPhresh]

Without getting into OPSEC or leaning to heavily on personal experience, I wasn't impressed by the Ukrainians.

We had to show them how to use the most basic counterbattery equipment and techniques. Not that something like that is modeled in CM, just my $0.02CAD. I wasn't surprised to read after we got home that their batteries were getting whacked because the Russians hacked the phone app they were using instead of a proper CP.

Edited April 28, 2017 by DougPhresh

[Romka]

1 hour ago, DougPhresh said:

Without getting into OPSEC or leaning to heavily on personal experience, I wasn't impressed by the Ukrainians.

We had to show them how to use the most basic counterbattery equipment and techniques. Not that something like that is modeled in CM, just my $0.02CAD. I wasn't surprised to read after we got home that their batteries were getting whacked because the Russians hacked the phone app they were using instead of a proper CP.

Dont be too strict to our army, Ukrainian army before Donbass war was an army of free work force that had almost no training and no battle experience, with сorrupt officers and equipment that did not worked. Country neglected its army for almost quarter of century, because nobody thought that one of the neighbors will attack us. 

Edited April 29, 2017 by Romka

[kraze]

Yeah, I agree, when Battlefront announced the game first the picture was bleak for Ukrainian army. But they at least counterbalanced this by making Oplot-M a fairly common tank on the battlefield which it still isn't. Granted I know that a few years back the order was placed for KMDB to make more of them - but dunno if there are any results thus far.

Hopefully with a whatever expack Battlefront will make Ukrainian army more in line with how it is today - but most of all I hope they will update base campaign. Yeah fat chance of that but what I mean is - at least add small recon UAVs which ended up being a surprisingly major part of the army, change uniforms to digital by default and improve morale. In game Ukrainians are very badly motivated and often retreat like Syrians from CMSF at the sight of the slightest enemy advantage. As, sadly, real life showed us - it's the opposite.

Expack itself can include the more up-to-date missing units and weaponry and if rumors are to be believed - expack will deal with marines. And those got some nicely upgraded tech recently when it comes to Ukraine. One hint at this can be found in the manual where game mentions Odessa as another frontline. Odessa = sea. Sea = Marines.

[DMS]

I thought that this game is about small unit tactics, not about cool prototype vehicles. There are "World of tanks", "Armored warfare", e.t.c., right? Sci-fy equipment draws attention to their characteristics instead of realistic warfare simulation. What is gameplay difference between UAZ and HUMVEE? The last better holds rifle bullets. Do you want to use them for assaulting enemy MGs?

Model of Ukrainian HUMVEE takes some man/hours, may be it is better to make new Ukrainian soldier textures instead? (Winter uniforms, or nazguard units)

[Oleksandr]

2 hours ago, DMS said:

I thought that this game is about small unit tactics, not about cool prototype vehicles. There are "World of tanks", "Armored warfare", e.t.c., right? Sci-fy equipment draws attention to their characteristics instead of realistic warfare simulation. What is gameplay difference between UAZ and HUMVEE? The last better holds rifle bullets. Do you want to use them for assaulting enemy MGs?

Model of Ukrainian HUMVEE takes some man/hours, may be it is better to make new Ukrainian soldier textures instead? (Winter uniforms, or nazguard units)

your thought is wrong because its not about small units its about up to battalion tactical group clashes. Furthermore those what ive described here are not prototypes and massively used by Ukrainian Military. Basically since 2016 russia lost its technical superiority when its comes to regular forces (not including Nukes) and what I mean by that is that Ukrainian personal carriers from KRAZ are better than GAZ TIGR (TIGR holds 600 gramm of TNT while KRAZ Spartan up to 4 kilos) Ukrainian BTR's 3 are several times more powerful than Russian BTR-82A Ukraine got better sniper rifles, scoped weapons, it got it hands on tons of a western equipment and so on and so on. This game has huge disbalance of power at this moment, its almost like russia has as much to bring up into a fight as US while Ukraine in this game is farely weak - and its not like that in life lol. So as a gamer, who is spending a lot on a war games and on Combat Mission series in particular, Im interested in seing some balance improvements such as: bringing new Ukrainian hardware to the table. If you dont like prototypes - forget about T90AM and other stuff lol. T72B3 is Russian main battle tank and T90 is its bad variation lol and thats why they are not so many of them produced. There is a huge difference between UAZ and HMMWV (which you noobly call "humvee" lol) and if you need an explanation what is the differene between them it might be no sense to explain it to you lol but i will coz I got a good mood today - "HUMVEE" as you call them lol got turrents on it so it can be used as a support in a firefight. Anyways, as I was saying lol that this msg was sort of a request like "hey guys it would be cool if you would do this if you will get a chance" it wasnt something negative or something. Just a regular client puts some feedback on a product in order to help developers to make it even better. And I dont think that man/hours is a problem for those guys who making this game coz its their job you know))) by creating new content they are able to put a price tag on that content lol)))) So those man hours will pay off lol Like for other games in COMBAT Mission series they are making some "armor packs" so I was like "Hey it would be so cool if they would bring something like this to this game." Now back to "small unit tactics" lol this game is pretty flexible you can have massive battles and you can have small battles - and if I will follow your logic then making new content for Ukrainian side will only benefit small tactics because there will be more differences between sides lol !!!! It would bring more fun to the game, and if you think that Im not interested in adding content for Russian side you are wrong as well. I would love to see new AK's for the russian side, I would like to see their Typhoon K and Typhoon U in this game, damn it would be cool to see Armata platform as well. I mean why not right? If people are willing to pay right? thats how capitalism working right? lol P.S. There was exactly the same threat about Russian side on this forum and people were asking for all kinds of stuff to add, and some of those things were added after being requested, so I just gave it a shot. It wasnt meant to make others uncomfortable, I mean all you guys who would critisize my msg - well Im sorry for me daring to share my ideas about this wonderful game. Im sorry for willing to pay my green dollars for new content and how dare I to ask developers to spend some man hours on it lol right?))) Now I hope you all would have a wonderful day, and good luck on a battlefield comrads! Glory To Ukraine! 

[DougPhresh]

44 minutes ago, Oleksandr said:

Basically since 2016 russia lost its technical superiority when its comes to regular forces

Well, that's wildly optimistic.

[Oleksandr]

34 minutes ago, DougPhresh said:

Well, that's wildly optimistic.

34 minutes ago, DougPhresh said:

Well, that's wildly optimistic.

WARNING NEXT IS MY SUBJECTIVE OPINION - not trying to make anyone uncomfortable or offended: From what I see, casualties are saying otherwise - pro russian side lost nearly 6x times more of people than Ukrainian Army. So I mean - they getting their asses kicked pretty hard - Ukrainian side just waits untill US and other countries will finish lowering russian economy so that they will not be able to maintain their army (nobody wants to give russia chance to use its mass destruction weapons - long and exhausting war is way better, I  mean it worked with Soviet Union lol) and from that point it will be a metter of 2-3 monthes till total anihilation of pro-russian forces on the ground. At certain point control over Crimea will be given back to Ukraine without even a single shot. But again getnlemen thats not my point here. I dont want to get political, if you would like to chat about this, share ideas, fears or hopes please feel free to msg me directly. Im always open to new friends, especially from a community where people value strategy and tactics. My main point is that I think it would be so cool to see some new units in the game. And to be honest, I've already recived somewhat promising feed back from developing team. Its unclear what they will do next, but they will do something. That makes me excited. 

[shift8]

5 hours ago, Oleksandr said:

WARNING NEXT IS MY SUBJECTIVE OPINION - not trying to make anyone uncomfortable or offended: From what I see, casualties are saying otherwise - pro russian side lost nearly 6x times more of people than Ukrainian Army. So I mean - they getting their asses kicked pretty hard - Ukrainian side just waits untill US and other countries will finish lowering russian economy so that they will not be able to maintain their army (nobody wants to give russia chance to use its mass destruction weapons - long and exhausting war is way better, I  mean it worked with Soviet Union lol) and from that point it will be a metter of 2-3 monthes till total anihilation of pro-russian forces on the ground. At certain point control over Crimea will be given back to Ukraine without even a single shot. But again getnlemen thats not my point here. I dont want to get political, if you would like to chat about this, share ideas, fears or hopes please feel free to msg me directly. Im always open to new friends, especially from a community where people value strategy and tactics. My main point is that I think it would be so cool to see some new units in the game. And to be honest, I've already recived somewhat promising feed back from developing team. Its unclear what they will do next, but they will do something. That makes me excited. 

I also heard that Somalia is soon to be a world power. 

[DougPhresh]

1 hour ago, shift8 said:

I also heard that Somalia is soon to be a world power. 

Somalia doesn't have a frozen conflict with a militarily aggressive nuclear power, they probably have a better chance.

[Oleksandr]

40 minutes ago, DougPhresh said:

Somalia doesn't have a frozen conflict with a militarily aggressive nuclear power, they probably have a better chance.

You know getnlemen while reading some of your comments, I really got a strange feeling. It's hard to describe but it feels like some of you really think that russia had at least a small chance to turn current situation it into its victory. It is truly remarkable. I mean basically geopolitical violations and agression are acts of a pure suicide (in which death is simply prolongated). They've lost it at the day they've started it. Think about it, same already happened before with way larger military power - USSR. Right now history simply repeats itself - reds are moving to their end and further collapse. Just because they had an impulse power to take control over piece of land what belongs to predominantly peaceful nation doesnt means that they will keep control over it. Having nukes also doesnt automatically leads to ability to use those nukes and they werent used by russia ever before. Im thankful to you gentlemen for showing me that there is another viewpoint on this situation. Thinking that in a modern day you can use hard power to change borders is truly brave thinking. Thank you for that. You see, at the moment of upcoming victory my feeling would be incomplete without brave thinkers like you. Apparently there are people thinking that nuclear blackmailing can be left without conseuences, apparently there  are people who think that its enough to have military capabilites to take something (without carrying about how to keep it), and apparently there are people who are truly romantic in their nature because their mindset allows them to imagine someone going against the will of the World Order and surviving afterwords. I hope that I will hear more from you in same fashion (in upcoming discussions), that would actually be wonderful. I mean imagine the world where you can go against the will of civilization and invade a country just because you have a power to do that even if its against the will of the United States, and then imagine a world where you can threat someone with nuclear strike and then get away with that. I mean wow. Afterall, facing healthy dose of critcism and sarcasm feels great because those two are parts of our freedom - we can be agree or disagree and we can express that in many different forms. Thank you once again, one day when I will be enjoying my cognac under Ukrainian flag on a beach somewhere in Crimea and watching how NATO fleet (with Ukrainian ships in it) enters the port I will say to myself, "Remember those two guys from that Forum? Those two who were saying that Somalia got a higher chance to became a super power than Ukraine to win this? Remember those guys? Cheers to them." I hope you all will have a great week. Best regards gentlemen. 

[Rinaldi]

[Erwin]

I think people are just joking a bit with you, Oleksandr.

[Oleksandr]

5 minutes ago, Erwin said:

I think people are just joking a bit with you, Oleksandr.

Oh I know man) Im cool) just want to see more stuff in the game) 

[cool breeze]

Honestly, you're fitting right in here and I am quite glad you joined us.  I want all the new kit for added too.  I agree that those turreted up Kraz seem to add a lot of combat power compared to the UAZ.  It seems to me that the people who are giving you a hard time or razzing you or whatever are maybe a little missing your point.  it doesnt seem to me you are saying you think the UKR is a more powerful overall army, numbers and size factored in, compared to Russia, but that they have done enough lately upgrading the army they have, that per man its as or better equipped than Russia.  Now I don't know even really have any idea if that's correct or not once you include more strategic assets, but at the CM level it seems like it might be a pretty valid point.  At least until Armata's show up in CM, which I'm doubtful will happen but would like to see as well.  But Id rather see the stuff your talking about than Armata because it's actually there now.  But I want em both, for me the story perfectly justifies Russia rushing what few it has over there. I wanna see all the kit I can of course, in the game.

[Oleksandr]

2 hours ago, cool breeze said:

Honestly, you're fitting right in here and I am quite glad you joined us.  I want all the new kit for added too.  I agree that those turreted up Kraz seem to add a lot of combat power compared to the UAZ.  It seems to me that the people who are giving you a hard time or razzing you or whatever are maybe a little missing your point.  it doesnt seem to me you are saying you think the UKR is a more powerful overall army, numbers and size factored in, compared to Russia, but that they have done enough lately upgrading the army they have, that per man its as or better equipped than Russia.  Now I don't know even really have any idea if that's correct or not once you include more strategic assets, but at the CM level it seems like it might be a pretty valid point.  At least until Armata's show up in CM, which I'm doubtful will happen but would like to see as well.  But Id rather see the stuff your talking about than Armata because it's actually there now.  But I want em both, for me the story perfectly justifies Russia rushing what few it has over there. I wanna see all the kit I can of course, in the game.

Thank you for understanding my point man) It is pleasure for me to be here. 

[Marwek77 aka Red Reporter]

Just one simple question Oleksandr - how is your glory UA going to pay it?

[Erwin]

Perhaps the point is that if Ukr gets increasingly better equipped and experienced, then the Russians have to commit more and more force.  As we have seen with the US, even superpowers have limits as they have other responsibilities eg: in Russia's case, keeping enuff force in reserve to counter possible Chinese attacks or US attacks, or problems in Georgia, Ussetia, or... etc etc.  Eventually Ukr could be another Afghanistan in terms of it being a sinkhole of assets and resources.