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Bren Guns firing single shots?

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Just to add my pennyworth...

When I first joined, the section gun was the LMG.  This was basically a Bren, re-chambered to 7.62 Nato.  We were trained to fire short bursts of 2 - 5 rounds.  The gun we were taught, represented 50% of a section's firepower.   The section was divided into A and B fire-teams which were rifle team and gun team.  The gun team consisted of the gunner and the 2IC, who also doubled as the No 2 on the gun.  A good team could keep up a very rapid rate of fire, almost as good as that of a GPMG.  Reloading took 2 seconds max.  A spare barrel was also carried in case of overheating.  It could be changed very quickly.  Every member of the section carried 2 x LMG mags.  They were passed to the gun team on demand. 

All of the above were SOPs that were carried over from WW2.  The only real difference, and it was a minor one) was that the 303 Bren mag held 28 rounds.  The 7.62 LMG held 30.  Also, the LMG could be fired with standard 20 round SLR mags.  We were never instructed to fire single rounds from the gun in a tactical situation.  That only came when we converted to SA80 and the gun was replaced by 2 x LSWs.  Fire-teams were designated C and D, each consisting of 3 riflemen and 1 LSW gunner.  We were only allowed to fire the LSW on rounds, which we all agreed absolutely sucked because it deprived the section of 50% of its firepower.   The reason for this was that that abortion of a weapon fired from a closed bolt and suffered from severe overheating problems resulting in cook-offs if fired for any length of time on auto.  It was only after I had left that the British Army saw sense and acquired the Minimi.

I hope that this helps if there are going to be any more upgrades.

SLR  

 

Edited by SelfLoadingRifle

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Thanks for the Info, SLR, and hope, BF, returns Small Arms to it's pre v4 state, or to a lesser degree, use some of the suggestions above.

Edited by JoMc67

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And how much magazines had Bren/BAR gunners? MG-42/34 had a lot of ammo and gunner assistant could set a box with a 250 round belt if they would stay in position for some time. DPs had a problem with magazines, only 2 or 3. Sometimes 1! Gunner assistant had to fill them with rounds.

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2 hours ago, DMS said:

MG-42/34 had a lot of ammo and gunner assistant could set a box with a 250 round belt if they would stay in position for some time.

Are you saying that this was common practice for the squad LMG? I've seen hundreds of photos of German squads where individual members of the squad might be carrying single belts of cartridges, but the only time I can recall seeing boxes of ammo being carried was for the crew served version with tripod and all the goodies. In the LMG role, the emphasis was on mobility, and they often had a saddle magazine for 50-75 rounds, or a single belt. The belt provided more firepower without having to pause to reload, but was also more awkward to carry.

Michael

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Just now, Michael Emrys said:

Are you saying that this was common practice for the squad LMG? I've seen hundreds of photos of German squads where individual members of the squad might be carrying single belts of cartridges, but the only time I can recall seeing boxes of ammo being carried was for the crew served version with tripod and all the goodies. In the LMG role, the emphasis was on mobility, and they often had a saddle magazine for 50-75 rounds, or a single belt. The belt provided more firepower without having to pause to reload, but was also more awkward to carry.

Michael

Well, I found at least 1 photo:

0_787d_470e19e3_orig.jpg

http://www.mp44.nl/equipment/patronenkasten.htm

As I understand, box would be deployed in static position, when firepower becomes more important than mobility..

In this source, page 2 [http://mudandblood.net/downloads/number09.pdf] is said that assistant had 1 box.

I can't say how often was that in fact, may be someone who is more informated would clarify this question.

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The Bren had an effective range for automatic fire of 550 metres.  Currently the in game Bren behaviour precludes players from using doctrinal tactics for Commonwealth infantry sections at ranges greater than 150m, as the Bren detachment can not perform its suppressing fire role to allow the riflemen to manoeuvre.  Also, the Bren and the BAR are vastly different in capability and, particularly late in the war, method of employment.  To model them the same way in game does neither justice... but the game continues to evolve!

Edited by Mordran
Typo

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On ‎5‎/‎25‎/‎2017 at 11:37 PM, Mordran said:

The Bren had an effective range for automatic fire of 550 metres.  Currently the in game Bren behaviour precludes players from using doctrinal tactics for Commonwealth infantry sections at ranges greater than 150m, as the Bren detachment can not perform its suppressing fire role to allow the riflemen to manoeuvre.  Also, the Bren and the BAR are vastly different in capability and, particularly late in the war, method of employment.  To model them the same way in game does neither justice... but the game continues to evolve!

Yeah, and hope BF fixes the Single Round issue for both Bren & BAR in next Patch...I like to, either, see single rounds being fired past 250 meters (outside moderate range), or simply return to pre v4 when firing about 2-3 rounds per burst, but maybe at a little longer intervals.

Edited by JoMc67

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On 2017-05-26 at 5:37 AM, Mordran said:

 and, particularly late in the war, method of employment

That caught my interest. Could you explain how the method of employment was different?

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I'll preface this by saying I am, in no way, an expert nor student of historical infantry tactics.  My understanding of evolving US tactics during WWII is, because the BAR was unsuited to prolonged suppressive fire; having no quick change barrel and a magazine that could only be changed by the gunner, US platoons would, when available, add a second BAR to its squads, and more often form two equal fire teams, in the mould of the modern fire team principle.  Interestingly, in game, if you hit the 'combine squad' function on a US 2-BAR squad it will make 2 teams, each with a BAR, and the 'assault' command will move them in bounds.  Hopefully the historians and tacticians of the forums will be able to debunk or uphold my thoughts (?).

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@Mordran, every time I see your name I think it's me.

 

Yeah, I was testing wav files the other day trying to find some good sounds and noticed the Bren only taking single shots and I thought it was weird. I would at least thought a three shot burst or something. It's not much on suppression at one pop every five to 10 seconds.

 

Mord.

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6 hours ago, Mord said:

@Mordran, every time I see your name I think it's me.

 

Yeah, I was testing wav files the other day trying to find some good sounds and noticed the Bren only taking single shots and I thought it was weird. I would at least thought a three shot burst or something. It's not much on suppression at one pop every five to 10 seconds.

 

Mord.

Yes, you will notice the B.A.R & Bren taking Single-Shots after around 150-175 meters...

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I just got back into the game and I am encountering this problem. Was this fixed or is there a patch I am unaware of? Because this thread was made a year ago, I can't believe this would not be fixed in 12 months. But I can't find anything anywhere. The commonwealth infantry sections, which were never exactly top notch at dishing out suppression, is now basically incapable of suppressing anything.

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This problem still exists. Beyond ~150m you get single shots from Brens and Bars. In fact you get 0 practical firepower from an American or British rifle section beyond 200m, unless you manually area fire, since then everybody, except the Bren/Bar does not fire at all. An exception is if the targets are running upright, then the rifles might fire a couple shots. I have a test range setup, and the total fire output from a British rifle squad, without manual target order, against an enemy squad not moving, is around 3-10 rounds per minute, only fired from the Bren/Bar.

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1 hour ago, Oliver_88 said:

apparently been fixed for inclusion in the next patch whenever that is

Good news, how do you know this?

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In a CMFI game I have now there is one Bren (team) that single shot fire at about 165 m and one Bren (split squad) that area fire burst at about 60 m. I have a save. Lates version of FI.

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