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Erwin

Road to Nijmegan Campaign

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I posted a question about a problem mission a few days ago.  But, can't find it.  So, apologies in advance if this is a repeat.

Having a big problem with mission #15 or #16 - where the US airborne defends vs a massive German assault on a town (with a blown up bridge).  Have replayed this at least half a dozen times and restarted it another dozen and I cannot get a win - which unfortunately I need to not get kicked out of the campaign.  Help appreciated.

 

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Why not just take your defeat on the chin and try again another time. I never replay missions in the hope of progressing in a campaign. I record my defeat, and move on to another campaign or stand alone battle. 

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Jeez, is it so weird to want to complete a campaign one has invested dozens or even hundreds of game hours in?  I have already attempted this mission at least 6 times plus many other CF's so I could restart a few minutes earlier.  Clearly the mission can be won.  But, what's the trick?

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Oh, no it's not weird at all. That is one of the beauties of this game, the fact we all have our own approaches to it. Win, lose or draw, I still feel like I'm getting great value and enjoyment from the game. Anyway, hopefully someone who is better than me at CMx2 will be along soon to give you a few tips on this particular mission.

Edited by Warts 'n' all

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The reason I found your philosophy a bit strange is that if one just gave up, one would never finish Courage and Fortitude campaign without many replays or some of the missions.  However, the final mission in C&F was one of the best I have ever played.  A huge mission with all the toys in the CM2 toolbox.

With this Nijmegan mission I keep thinking if there some major tactical error I am making, or is it a mission where one has to do everything exactly right at exactly the right time.

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1 hour ago, Erwin said:

The reason I found your philosophy a bit strange is that if one just gave up, one would never finish Courage and Fortitude campaign without many replays or some of the missions.  However, the final mission in C&F was one of the best I have ever played.  A huge mission with all the toys in the CM2 toolbox.

With this Nijmegan mission I keep thinking if there some major tactical error I am making, or is it a mission where one has to do everything exactly right at exactly the right time.

You seem to have this perception that designers plan missions requiring the player perform exactly in one manner.  I don't know of anyone who actually does that. It is possible that without thorough testing a mission could be a very high difficulty level, even more so than the designer expected. 

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4 hours ago, sburke said:

You seem to have this perception that designers plan missions requiring the player perform exactly in one manner.  I don't know of anyone who actually does that. It is possible that without thorough testing a mission could be a very high difficulty level, even more so than the designer expected. 

My point is that I have replayed this mission many times with different tactics/strategy - and none worked.  Hence my frustration and asking for help.  So, far no one has been helpful at all.  <_<

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It's a terrific campaign.  But I suspect many played it years ago and have now moved on. :( 

All I want to do is finish the beast.  I think I only have one mission after the one I am stuck on (assuming this one isn't the final one).  Actually, can someone figure out the "campaign map" of missions.  It would be v helpful to know if this is the last, the penultimate or if there are more missions to come.

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Thank you for finding that!. 

I had no idea the campaign was that huge.  :o

I am stuck at "Turning Back The Tide" (mission #54, 55 or 56).  So, only "Hunner Park" next to complete the campaign.  But, good old Paper Tiger.  I think he likes to stick a really hard mission in his campaigns.  Got stuck on a similar one in an otherwise xnt Red vs Red CMSF campaign of his called "The Road To Dinas".  After a dozen tries over a year I had to stop playing it as I had burned out.

But, am stunned at all the Nijmegan missions I never got to play due to the complex tree.  Wow...

Also, it appears there is no way to "win".  Every campaign final result is either Major Defeat or Total Defeat.  Am I reading that correctly??

 

Edited by Erwin

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22 minutes ago, Erwin said:

Thank you for finding that!. 

My web site so your welcome :D

 

22 minutes ago, Erwin said:

I had no idea the campaign was that huge.  :o

Yeah, me neither. When I went to the page I was surprised by the "tree".

 

22 minutes ago, Erwin said:

I am stuck at "Turning Back The Tide" (mission #54, 55 or 56).  So, only "Hunner Park" next to complete the campaign.  But, good old Paper Tiger.  I think he likes to stick a really hard mission in his campaigns.  Got stuck on a similar one in an otherwise xnt Red vs Red CMSF campaign of his called "The Road To Dinas".  After a dozen tries over a year I had to stop playing it as I had burned out.

Touching on the way to win, could it be that your forces are too depleted and you don't have enough left for the win? Are you fighting with forces that have been taking casulties along the way? If so it is possible that you set your self up for an impossible job in previous missions.

 

22 minutes ago, Erwin said:

Also, it appears there is no way to "win".  Every campaign final result is either Major Defeat or Total Defeat.  Am I reading that correctly??

No you are not reading it correctly. Loosing certain missions means you are done with a Total loss that part is true. But, look at the ones with the label "Campaign End" in the "Next Battle after Win", you will notice that many of them say "Don't care / determined from overall score" that means that if you win that final battle the campaign ends and your score is the overall (I think combined results from all previous battles) score. Which hopefully would be a win :D

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"Touching on the way to win, could it be that your forces are too depleted and you don't have enough left for the win? Are you fighting with forces that have been taking casulties along the way? If so it is possible that you set your self up for an impossible job in previous missions."

Fortunately, one gets fully-staffed and equipped troops, arty, ammo and vehicles in "Turning Back the Tide".   If they were depleted, trust me I woulda already have gone back a mission or two to sort that out.

As I said I had EXACTLY the same problem in one of the last missions in Paper Tiger's superb Red On Red CMSF "ROAD TO DINAS" campaign.  I think putting in what seems like an impossible mission towards the end is his signature.  <_<

Speaking of the devil, where is Paper Tiger these days??

Edited by Erwin

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16 hours ago, Erwin said:

"Touching on the way to win, could it be that your forces are too depleted and you don't have enough left for the win? Are you fighting with forces that have been taking casulties along the way? If so it is possible that you set your self up for an impossible job in previous missions."

Fortunately, one gets fully-staffed and equipped troops, arty, ammo and vehicles in "Turning Back the Tide".   If they were depleted, trust me I woulda already have gone back a mission or two to sort that out.

As I said I had EXACTLY the same problem in one of the last missions in Paper Tiger's superb Red On Red CMSF "ROAD TO DINAS" campaign.  I think putting in what seems like an impossible mission towards the end is his signature.  <_<

Got it. So that also means that someone could play the broken out mission and see possible avenues to victory. I'd volunteer but my todo list is way to long for that. If anyone wants to try I have the component scenario on my HD or you can crack on the campaign using @Mad Mike's tool.

 

15 hours ago, Vanir Ausf B said:

He mentioned going to Mord's house to check up on him.

So, like any good horror film the best looking one of us that is left should follow him next?

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Oh, and if anyone is interested and can't break it out, I can give em my "SET-UP" file of the "Turning Back The Tide" mission and they can change it and play as desired.

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I didn't find "Badlands" that hard, forced a surrender. I did get a lucky hit on the AA Half track with a mortar.

I am just onto "Here We Fight", have not started yet.  Its the same map as I have already fought on twice before I have a reasonable number of troops but no bazooka. Its going to be a tough one.

 

 

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On 21.3.2017 at 10:44 PM, Erwin said:

As I said I had EXACTLY the same problem in one of the last missions in Paper Tiger's superb Red On Red CMSF "ROAD TO DINAS" campaign.  I think putting in what seems like an impossible mission towards the end is his signature.  <_<

"The Scottish Corridor" is still a bad memory to me in that regard. I went mental when I read the second last missions briefing... Along the lines of "defend with THAT against THAT onslaught?!? You kidding????"... Then the "last" missions sent me flying again ("God dammit, finish already damn campaign!!!")... Just to be awarded with a "bonus" mission which tasked me with even more impossible goals... I was totally pissed off by the time it ended, even though I won. :wacko::angry:

I must say I think Paper Tigers campaigns are ill-designed: they are just too freaking long and get harder and harder over time. Very frustrating to be forced out after spending dozens of hours on it.

"Courage and Fortitude is well designed in that respect: rock-hard but short. So even if you loose it is not so painful and frustrating. Brag mode activated: I won it on the first attempt - in every mission.B)Brag mode off

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On ‎21‎/‎03‎/‎2017 at 6:12 PM, IanL said:

It's right here: http://www.combatmission.lesliesoftware.com/BattleForNormandy/Campaigns/The Road to Nijmegen.html

That generated graph is a bit tough to read though but if you look for the scenario in the table below it you can find what you want (the graph is generated from the data in the table).

Wow.....Just wow!  :o

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As I read the table, if you "allowed" yourself to lose (in other words, did not keep playing each scenario until you win), you would be "rewarded" by getting easier versions of future scenarios.

See, for example, the 3 different versions of "For those about to die"--8,9,61. 

This is interesting and admirable conceptually.  Indeed, it raises the option of looking at a tactical situation in a scenario and taking the rational decision that the best thing to do is not to play it.  (introduced, in think, in C and F "Hard Knocks"--yes the first in the series was winnable, but it is skewed toward not even trying to.)

The problem, in my opinion, is that would have best to be explained--even right in the manual, if the main campaigns consisted of this type of arrangement.  Put in the manual, also, that beautiful campaign tree  (because to "derive it" from countless play-overs would take mind-bending hours)

Perhaps "teaching people to lose", or to not fight, is an admirable.....societal goal.  Or a skill that an actual commander might need (if given the authority).

But for the casual gamer to run into this philosophy, so different than most of what they are given to expect elsewhere is, in my opinion, unnecessarily off-putting.  Most of us try to "solve" a scenario, and do not realize that it may be there is, by design, no solution.  I read so many comments about "impossible" campaign scenarios with MG and the Italian campaigns that I barely tried them--they sounded "broken".

Seeing this tree gives me a far better understanding of what was going on. 

 

 

 

Edited by Rankorian
clarity

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