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The Many Skill Levels Of Soldiers

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I took this from the manual

Conscript: draftees with little training and no combat experience whatsoever.
Green: draftees with little training and some combat experience or reservists with some training and no combat experience. Green can also represent professional soldiers whose training is substandard in comparison to another force.
Regular: professional soldiers who went through extensive, quality training programs, but lack combat experience. Or, Regular can represent troops that received mediocre training that have a fair amount of combat experience.
Veteran: professional soldiers with standard military training and first hand combat experience. Alternatively, it can be professional soldiers who have trained to a slightly higher standard than Regulars, yet lack combat experience.
Crack: exceptional soldiers with more than the average training and plenty of combat experience.
Elite: the best of the best. Superb training, frequent combat experience, and generally all around tough guys.


MOTIVATION – determines the soldiers’ will to fight. Options range from Fanatic (soldier will never give up and fight even when facing certain death) all the way to Poor (soldier has little desire to fight and will take the first chance to rout).
FITNESS – determines the inherent degree of physical readiness of the unit’s soldiers. This influences on how quickly soldiers tire and recover from physical tasks, such as running or being bombarded by enemy fire. Options include: Fit, Weakened, and Unfit.
LEADERSHIP – the capability and experience of the unit leader does not always correspond with the quality of the unit. This rating allows a unit to range from great soldiers and terrible leaders, or terrible soldiers and great leaders. The values are from -2 to +2, indicating the leader’s influence on the unit cohesion and various other capabilities.
 

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user1000,

Most useful. Should troops commanded by -2 leaders frag their officers in order to improve combat effectiveness? Have read of the practice all the way back to WW II, and it's something of a Vietnam War trope. Or is it better to be in command but be officered by a tuna melt? Thoughts? Also, there ought to be something like a Super Fit setting, perfect for representing SOF and such. 

Regards,

John Kettler

 

 

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I tested out elite units in armor, 1 sherman tank and 1 stuart they fire at targets on the move more and spot them better. elite infatry spotted troops and engaged at greater distance. Tested conscript sherman tank horrid spotting and bailed on 20mm hits to hull. If anyone wants to do more testing and report back please do.

Edited by user1000

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If one has read all the manuals from CMBO days, how many manuals is that?  It's normal to have forgotten a whole lot and anyway, this is supposed to be an entertaining leisure activity, not a friggin' academic PhD course.  It would be wonderful if the games all had the same manual, but there ya go...  

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33 minutes ago, Erwin said:

It would be wonderful if the games all had the same manual, but there ya go...

All the CMx2 games do have the same manual, the game engine manual. It covers all aspects of the games, both modern and WWII. The game specific manuals give background information to the specific titles as well as provide a quick reference encyclopedia for the forces involved. Combatintman is right, it would be best if everyone took the time to skim parts of it first to better understand the game, at the very least skimming it before posting outlandish accusations here on the forum. That said, I'm pretty sure its an unwritten rule of humanity that all manuals must be thoroughly researched, written, and published, then promptly forgotten about and never read by anyone :lol: As is tradition.

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6 hours ago, Erwin said:

If one has read all the manuals from CMBO days, how many manuals is that?  It's normal to have forgotten a whole lot and anyway, this is supposed to be an entertaining leisure activity, not a friggin' academic PhD course.  It would be wonderful if the games all had the same manual, but there ya go...  

But it seems not to be an entertaining activity for those who post 'my troops run away wtf' and on the side of your academic PhD course argument - those who post 'the Tiger armour model is borked because it seems to be a micro millimetre less than ...(insert source)'.  Many people who claim things are unrealistic seem to be able to find the time to hunt around the interweb or quote a book about the behaviour or even spend heaps of time setting up tests to prove the theory when reading the manual would suffice.

To be honest I have no time whatsoever for any comedian who bowls in here bumping their gums about realism or lack of immersion and arguing about game behaviours who hasn't had the decency to either have:

Fought in WW2

Read the manual.

 

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I attempted to volunteer for service in WW2, but the army rejected me on the ridiculous grounds that I'd been dead for nigh on 300 years. They got some chap called Lord Gort to take my place, and we all know how that turned out. In the meantime I can assure people that the working class oik who writes my letters has indeed read the manual. 

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9 minutes ago, Warts 'n' all said:

I attempted to volunteer for service in WW2, but the army rejected me on the ridiculous grounds that I'd been dead for nigh on 300 years. They got some chap called Lord Gort to take my place, and we all know how that turned out. In the meantime I can assure people that the working class oik who writes my letters has indeed read the manual. 

Since to apply, you must have been in existence, and that likely meant you were a vampire--did you mention to the recruiting office that your night-time recon efforts were excellent, and you would not likely be drawing from the usual canteen rations?

Seriously, depending on the situation, sometimes the troops that are willing to flee, and fight another day, are more situationally correct.

And even if the troops are elite, having a big HE burst in the middle of them...the WW2 uniform was not much better than wearing a t-shirt with regards to shrapnel protection.

 

Edited by Rankorian

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'Course one should read the manual.  It's remembering all the friggin details that's the problem.  Add in a few other games that may have similar features and that compounds it.  That's why forums like this are so useful.  You can get quick answers from monomaniac Asperger Grogs who have no other life than reading manuals.  <_<

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Getting back on track, I will try testing more small things today, to see if elite uses cover better, secondary weapons more etc compared to conscript.

Edited by user1000

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2 hours ago, Erwin said:

'Course one should read the manual.  It's remembering all the friggin details that's the problem.

Amen. I used to have a really first rate short term memory. Now it's like the old joke: "Do you have trouble holding your urine?" "Yes, I find that it runs right between my fingers."

When I played board wargames, the first thing I would do with a new game was to spend an evening or two with the rule book and all the components close to hand. I would read slowly through the rule book and underline in red ink the bits I could foresee wanting to refer to during game play. Sometimes the necessity for this reached absurd proportions. For a while I was playing Squad Leader with a friend of mine and we spent nearly four times as much time looking up obscure rules than we did actually moving and firing our units.

Michael

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Just now, Michael Emrys said:

For a while I was playing Squad Leader with a friend of mine and we spent nearly four times as much time looking up obscure rules than we did actually moving and firing our units.

 

I think that pretty much the same thing can happen here...Spending more time testing various skill-levels, motivation settings etc rather then playing the game.

 

I tried to do this a while back but there are so many factors in play here that determins how the troops acts and also some degree of randomness i believe.

If you test a certain thing 10 times it will not play out in the same way every time.

I came to the conclusion that the best thing to do is to simply trust the manual...Elite troops are better then green for example...They will shoot better, fatigue less, be harder to pin/rout etc

A good leader is better then a bad one.

 

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What would be an example of  real life conscript US soldiers in WW2? I would say directly after the beach landings. At that point isn't it when the draftees really started to flood into action?

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I just play the game :) 

Like @RepsolCBR I keep it simple - Elite = great at everything; conscript not so good at everything. I also don't micromanage my troops. 

Still each to their own with this game - it's a broad kirk!

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3 hours ago, user1000 said:

What would be an example of  real life conscript US soldiers in WW2? I would say directly after the beach landings. At that point isn't it when the draftees really started to flood into action?

No, I think I would class some of the divisions, particularly the late arrivals, as Green. But most of the D-Day invaders were Regular or Veteran. The Rangers and 82nd. Airborne would mostly be classed as Veteran with some Crack. After formations had lost a lot of the men they started out with and had to absorb replacements, most of those replacements would have been Green or Conscript.

I'll let someone else answer for the Brits.

Michael

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7 hours ago, Warts 'n' all said:

I attempted to volunteer for service in WW2, but the army rejected me on the ridiculous grounds that I'd been dead for nigh on 300 years. They got some chap called Lord Gort to take my place, and we all know how that turned out. In the meantime I can assure people that the working class oik who writes my letters has indeed read the manual. 

Did  you remind them that you were the Lord Protector? This is scandalous. Remind them that you gave Ireland the gift of fire at Drogheda; and let them draw their own inferences from there.

Edited by Rinaldi

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6 hours ago, Rinaldi said:

Did  you remind them that you were the Lord Protector? This is scandalous. Remind them that you gave Ireland the gift of fire at Drogheda; and let them draw their own inferences from there.

Sssh, do not mention the D-word. My scribe's grandfather was from County Meath. He had the temerity to enter service with that odious little Anglican Montgomery.

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10 hours ago, user1000 said:

What would be an example of  real life conscript US soldiers in WW2? I would say directly after the beach landings. At that point isn't it when the draftees really started to flood into action?

This again :rolleyes: - are you sure you read the manual?

" Conscript: draftees with little training "

Fully concur with Combatinman, this thread is re-hashing the obvious. I'm only here for Our Lord Protector's banter.

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11 hours ago, Rinaldi said:

This again :rolleyes: - are you sure you read the manual?

" Conscript: draftees with little training "

Fully concur with Combatinman, this thread is re-hashing the obvious. I'm only here for Our Lord Protector's banter.

Way to make something up unrelated to a reply (didn't ask for the meaning of conscript) and answer it, do you have complete conversations with yourself this way?

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12 hours ago, Rinaldi said:

 ... this thread is re-hashing the obvious. I'm only here for Our Lord Protector's banter.

Thanks. Although truth be told, if I had been alive in Old Wart Fizzog's times I'd have been swinging from a tree like the Diggers, Levellers, and other assorted oiks who thought that he'd sold us out. 

Edited by Warts 'n' all

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