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Turkish Leo2 tanks struggle in the Syria

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Sgt.Squarehead,

True story of the Navy doing the same "narrative shaping" as ISIS. Live fire, just not in combat. Got this from my first boss at Hughes, John Green, who was there. US Naval Air Weapons Station, China Lake, California. The Navy's about to show off its wonderful new MK-81/82 Snake Eye bombs before brass and families in the reviewing stand. To make sure everything went off without a hitch, the target array had been rigged with explosives and a man assigned to detonate them if the bombs missed. The game was given away when he hit the button and blew up the targets while the impact fuzed bombs were still inbound!

MK-82 Snake Eye 

BombsSnakeEyes.JPG

Regards,

John Kettler

 

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JK, Maybe yes, "Precision" - but only under near perfect conditions - negligible wind, clear view, day, no incoming fire or EW. 

JDAM ignores/accounts for all those. Not really on a par, in terms of capabilities.

Still, no comfort to the guys shredded in that hummer. 

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7 hours ago, Sgt.Squarehead said:

I'd imagine that for every video you see with a bomb scoring a hit there are about fifty that achieve nothing.  :mellow:

Exactly why one needs to think big.  Think of tens of thousands of the little things...  That gets us back the advantage since a power like the US can afford tens of thousands of drone pilots. 

Why won't it happen?  Cos the defense contractors don't make $ on relatively low tech weapons systems like this.  The want to keep pushing ridiculously expensive nuke aircraft carriers and subs, and planes and tanks...  That's where the big profits are.  That's a reason why it took so long for (relatively inexpensive) spec ops to get momentum even though many were screaming for that for 20+ years.

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Just for fun I was watching CBC news this morning on the attack on Mosal and that footage was used while discussing the ISIS defence. I could not find anyone claiming the video was fake but I personally still have a problem with the fact that on release of the grenade the drone does not shift up at all. I know they are stabilized but stabilized means smooth and reduced reaction not no reaction. But I can offer nothing else to refute it.

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On 19/1/2017 at 6:05 AM, JUAN DEAG said:

6603f6fd7983.jpg

Very bad positioning for Leopard 2. ISIS has a way of using terrain to sneak around to the sides and rear of armored vehicles. Several weeks ago I watched IS use AT-7(?) to murder an entire platoon of Turkish Firtina howitzers. Sneaky bastards.

 

Do you have a link to that video of the Firtina howitzers being destroyed?

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19 minutes ago, IanL said:

Just for fun I was watching CBC news this morning on the attack on Mosal and that footage was used while discussing the ISIS defence. I could not find anyone claiming the video was fake but I personally still have a problem with the fact that on release of the grenade the drone does not shift up at all. I know they are stabilized but stabilized means smooth and reduced reaction not no reaction. But I can offer nothing else to refute it.

Modern drones, especially those used on set, have some insanely effective software for dealing with wind push/pull. 

We've shot in gusty, 15-20km winds with drones with nary a drift in framing. Spookily, unnaturally steady shots, sometimes. Considering wind pushes down/up as well as side to side, I'm atually not surprised the Frame hold steady at ordnance release. 

 

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Just now, kinophile said:

Modern drones, especially those used on set, have some insanely effective software for dealing with wind push/pull.

OK cool thanks for the info.

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1 hour ago, IanL said:

Just for fun I was watching CBC news this morning on the attack on Mosal and that footage was used while discussing the ISIS defence. I could not find anyone claiming the video was fake but I personally still have a problem with the fact that on release of the grenade the drone does not shift up at all. I know they are stabilized but stabilized means smooth and reduced reaction not no reaction. But I can offer nothing else to refute it.

Bear in mind that the camera is necessarily pointing straight down (this is how the grenades are aimed), so combined with zoom and the stabilization of the camera itself a shift upward might not really register in the camera image.  But more importantly, the imagery seen (I mean the real world imagery, not the post-process markers) shows zero evidence of digital fakery, which is usually apparent with close examination.

Edited by akd

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2 hours ago, akd said:

How to make money while achieving the same effects, and without misses:

http://www.upi.com/Defense-News/2016/10/03/AeroVironment-producing-Switchblade-missiles-for-Army/1391475510902/

"The order from the Army Close Combat Weapons Systems Project Office is worth more than $2.7 million and includes support services."

$2.7 million???    Gotta be an error.  You'd get a few DOD toilets for that price.

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John Kettler; Have you seen the numerous other videos showing drones dropping 40mm? There are several and no big booms are noticed. The one shown in this thread is the exception. My eyes tell me its real. I see no faking here.

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Schmoly War,

In no way was I claiming ISIS wasn't and isn't dropping small bombs, grenades and other things from drones, with considerable apparent effect. Going in, I was deeply suspicious of the size of one of the explosions, but if our FX people say it was real, then who am I to gainsay them? FX isn't my field of expertise. What I was saying is that I deem it a distinct likelihood that the spectacular explosions will show up in other ISIS videos, despite the explosions of that scale having not occurred in future bombings. Spectacular makes a bigger impression than so so, therefore excites the viewers and brings in new recruits, who say Western tech used to smite the Great Satan and allies from above, just as our drones have done to them and their jihadi brothers.

Obviously, the Iraqi Abrams TC is dead. That's a known fact. And I'm prepared to believe a 40 mm HE grenade or equivalent, if dropped into the interior of a Hummer loaded with not merely ammo but almost certainly other explosives (AT-4s. for example), too, could well cause a K-Kill, which could be pretty spectacular. Nor do I have any issue when what were probably 40 mm grenades of some sort were dropped into troop clusters and laid a bunch of men flat with each detonation. Exactly what I'd expect for such a detonation on pavement with the targets practically at the detonation point. Kill radius of a 40 mm HE is 5 meters and effective wounding distance is 15 meters. 

Is ISIS doing this bombing? Absolutely. I simply don't trust what ISIS shows because it's very much in ISIS's interest to make itself look big, impressive and deadly. People have already found repeated evidence that ISIS is inflating Turkish tank kills by changing camera angles, shooting new images, then claiming the Turks have lost yet more tanks to their "righteous" cause. 

Regards,

John Kettler

 

Edited by John Kettler

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Douglas Ruddd,

From the page you linked to, I got this video. If the story's right, two days after those Leopard tanks were destroyed an M60T and a Cobra both took an ATGM hit in rapid succession. Still trying to figure out what happened in terms of casualties. For sure, a lot of men got out of the cobra, but I can't tell whether or not anyone got out of the tank, which may or may not still work. Certainly, the was no K-Kill.

http://defense-watch.com/2016/12/16/video-double-atgm-hit-turkish-m60t-tank-cobra-armored-vehicle-syria/

Regards,

John Kettler

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Interesting piece on drones here:  https://warisboring.com/iraqi-federal-police-weaponize-off-the-shelf-drones-isis-style-e6d3e80364c8#.lm5rtwe6i

If you can't beat 'em!  ;)

Another article that I found interesting:  https://warisboring.com/turkey-won-and-lost-the-race-to-al-bab-f6d3172c095a#.qf115plez

 

 

Edited by Sgt.Squarehead

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That first video is just sad.  :mellow:

A cheap simple quad-rotor chassis assembled around a fragmentation grenade and a proximity sensor would have enormous potential, both as an ultra-agile guided missile and a hostile drone interceptor.

For those of a more 'green' bent, this anti-drone system is smart, reusable & self-replicating:

(1:21) That Eagle really wants to kill that drone!  B)

Edited by Sgt.Squarehead

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Turkey's military agenda isn't just about fighting ISIS (first link below), which is exciting enough, but it's pretty bad when Turkey's ally in the anti_ISIS fight, Russia, bombs Turkish troops and kills some! And this wasn't even CAS but a pre-planned strike!

This has a great closeup of an M60T.

https://warisboring.com/turkey-won-and-lost-the-race-to-al-bab-f6d3172c095a#.5i410vnl8 

How Russia managed to bomb an ally it already knew was present in the strike zone.

https://warisboring.com/russia-screwed-up-and-accidentally-bombed-the-turkish-army-c5a32d4928c0#.p886rl8go

Regards,

John Kettler

Edited by John Kettler

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