Turkish Leo2 tanks struggle in the Syria

[IICptMillerII]

33 minutes ago, Wicky said:

Ah yes, who can forget classics like Panzers on Mars;

 

 

and the immune to reason 'deep thinking' that led you to convince yourself that V2 missiles could be shot out smaller diameter hole from a supposed missle silo (in reality naval gun mounts) than the missile's diameter. Which IIRC was the final straw that lost you the job!

But undeterred soon led onto craziness such as Nazi UFOs with underslung Panther turrets and Nazi A-Bomb vs. Russia-Kursk, 1943!

What?

I've not been following the thread these past few days. How did things stray from Leopards in Syria to Panzers on Mars? Sounds like a sci fi book in the same vein as the John Carter series (of which I am a big fan. Great fiction) 

Somehow this feels like the always present underlying secret request of the forum community that BFC cave in to public demands and make Combat Mission: Space Lobsters of Doom...

[SgtHatred]

3 hours ago, IICptMillerII said:

What?

I've not been following the thread these past few days. How did things stray from Leopards in Syria to Panzers on Mars? Sounds like a sci fi book in the same vein as the John Carter series (of which I am a big fan. Great fiction) 

Somehow this feels like the always present underlying secret request of the forum community that BFC cave in to public demands and make Combat Mission: Space Lobsters of Doom...

I believe it is a reference to the fact that one of the participants in this discussion is literally insane. I was confused about it a year or so ago when I first started reading this forum and I saw something similar, but then I googled the right name and everything became terrifyingly clear.

[John Kettler]

Wicky,

Remarkable that someone has me on Ignore should, for the umpteenth time, wade in again on a subject area you know I can't discuss so you can belittle and attack me. That's called baiting, and it's prohibited behavior under the Forum Rules. What I will say, though are as follows.

1. The first occurred in a paid reportorial context. Certain claims were made as to what was in NASA's own imagery, and I offered my own informed opinions. My deep thinking ref my dad's work was so insightful it led to a full-blown security flap at after I indicated a way by which a Division-level system called ELOCAR (Electro-Optical Collection And Reporting), used to create a hostile laser emitter OOB, could be located, targeted and destroyed. AN/AAD-5 BLACK CROW. Look it up. See also URE. It's how the US found NVA trucks on the Ho Chi Minh Trail. It was almost certainly SECRET, if not higher, information when Aviation Week got it and published it, and the people at my Dad's job didn't realize the information had ever been published open source, so freaked out.

2. I made a mistake on that V-2 business and got badly tangled up when things got hot. You neglect to report I later formally admitted my mistake and apologized, but that wouldn't advance your Kettler-bashing narrative, would it, since it's allowed you to assail me any time you want for many years? Apropos of the missile fiasco, I would note that when the book VENGEANCE! was being written, the French villagers either didn't know or didn't tell British rocket engineer Philips the concrete tubes were there before the Germans invaded! 

Now, I shall devote a paragraph to your singularly vile and wholly false claim the V-2 rocket story cost me my job (as a Soviet Threat Analyst). I resigned from my job, for reasons of ruined health and that I'd realized I was working with some actual warmongers (was there to defend, not attack), on June 20, 1989. Would further point out that my firm, desperate to keep me, offered me not just a rapid promotion to MTS (Member of the Technical Staff) III and a substantial raise, but my own project, team and budget! I joined the CMBO Forum on February 1st, 2000, the very day I discovered it. CMBO wasn't released until  2000. How, then,  could I have been fired for the V-2 debacle eleven (11) years before CMBO was released? Since you never, ever, hesitate to jump on me over errors of fact, are you prepared to jump as hard, and as publicly, on yourself?! Lying about someone and character assassination are also offenses against the Forum Rules. Would further note there's been a wealth of new research discoveries regarding those topics you deem "crazy."

IICptMillerII

The individual to whom SgtHatred refers is very much sane, but is very much aware--from extensive reading, pondering, willingness to look at old data new ways, talking (mostly listening) to an array of BTDT types, coupled with direct experience, that things are altogether more complicated, astounding, even terrifying than the typical person imagines. It would be fair to say that what was pretty much myth decades ago, is, in many cases, well and diversely documented truth today, with evidence including patents, photographs and multiple eyewitness accounts, some over a period of decades and in locations here and abroad.

Regards,

John Kettler

 

 

Edited February 17, 2017 by John Kettler

[Sgt.Squarehead]

Oh god.....What have I walked into? 

You aren't one of the people I used to debunk on Above Top Secret are you?  If that's the level of discussion here, I'll be on my way. 

Edited February 17, 2017 by Sgt.Squarehead

[John Kettler]

Returning to Leopard tanks, does anyone believe ISIS has captured a pair, as the still and video in the below article seems to indicate? While I could be wrong, the tank shown looks intact to me, showing no signs of bomb blast or fire.

http://www.middleeasteye.net/news/claims-capture-two-tanks-after-killing-70-turkish-troops-syria-845385252

Regards,

John Kettler

[Sgt.Squarehead]

It won't let me view the video.....The still image is rather uninformative.  I wouldn't imagine they'd be able to keep a Leopard in the field for too long though, not much commonality locally and no ready source of spares (that aren't slightly charred). 

I want to know about the Nazi UFO with the Panther turret, it's something I've debunked personally.....The Panther turret used on the model (for that's what it is) has a most singular inaccuracy that is present only on a pair of very particular model kits, one 1:72 and one in 1:35 (one kit was copied from the other).  The faker didn't know this, but hard-core armour modellers do. 

[Douglas Ruddd]

1 hour ago, Sgt.Squarehead said:

It won't let me view the video.....The still image is rather uninformative.  I wouldn't imagine they'd be able to keep a Leopard in the field for too long though, not much commonality locally and no ready source of spares (that aren't slightly charred). 

I want to know about the Nazi UFO with the Panther turret, it's something I've debunked personally.....The Panther turret used on the model (for that's what it is) has a most singular inaccuracy that is present only on a pair of very particular model kits, one 1:72 and one in 1:35 (one kit was copied from the other).  The faker didn't know this, but hard-core armour modellers do. 

No, you really don't want to go there, that whole thread got a bit messy, and has been brought a couple of times since, and it sort of got messy, again. Try the internet way back machine, it may have the old forum archived.

Do know about the model(s), they were, if iirc, a kit bashed flying saucer from the 1960s TV show The Invaders from Aurora with a 1/72 Panther turret glued on the bottom.

[Sgt.Squarehead]

Ah.....1:72 makes it the old ESCI kit (Also boxed in the US by AMT/Ertl & countless others). 

http://henk.fox3000.com/Esci.htm

Edited February 17, 2017 by Sgt.Squarehead

[cool breeze]

Steve doesn't like the discussion getting too weird and has asked JK not to talk about that stuff on here at least once, so best to move it to private messages if you want to ask more questions fairly.

[Douglas Ruddd]

2 hours ago, Sgt.Squarehead said:

Ah.....1:72 makes it the old ESCI kit (Also boxed in the US by AMT/Ertl & countless others). 

http://henk.fox3000.com/Esci.htm

Airfix also had a 1/72 Panther also.

[A Canadian Cat]

IMHO it is best to ignore all posts from people that post wacky stuff like that (also the haters too). You cannot get your time back from reading crazy conspiracy theories and nor can you get your time back from doing the work to debunk that sh*t either. Life is precious, use your time to live it instead of dealing with crazy. My ignore list is not very long but my enjoyment of these forums is much higher when I don't have to read their stuff.

[Sgt.Squarehead]

8 hours ago, Douglas Ruddd said:

Airfix also had a 1/72 Panther also.

The Airfix kit is actually 1:76 and it doesn't share the particular fault that identifies this one.....The Airfix kit has so many issues of its own that if the faker had used one of those, even a non-hard-core armour modeller would have spotted it. 

If you like modelling, you will love this:  http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/

To get us back on subject, have a Leopard:

Model built & painted by the legendary Andy Moore at Britmodeller:  http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/235011114-leopard-2a7/#comment-2524320

Edited February 17, 2017 by Sgt.Squarehead

[Douglas Ruddd]

30 minutes ago, Sgt.Squarehead said:

The Airfix kit is actually 1:76 and it doesn't share the particular fault that identifies this one.....The Airfix kit has so many issues of its own that if the faker had used one of those, even a non-hard-core armour modeller would have spotted it. 

If you like modelling, you will love this:  http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/

To get us back on subject, have a Leopard:

Model built & painted by the legendary Andy Moore at Britmodeller:  http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/235011114-leopard-2a7/#comment-2524320

Thanks for the link, bookmarked for later! That is one sweet Leopard II!

[IICptMillerII]

2 hours ago, IanL said:

IMHO it is best to ignore all posts from people that post wacky stuff like that (also the haters too). You cannot get your time back from reading crazy conspiracy theories and nor can you get your time back from doing the work to debunk that sh*t either. Life is precious, use your time to live it instead of dealing with crazy. My ignore list is not very long but my enjoyment of these forums is much higher when I don't have to read their stuff.

Having learned the full context with the direction the discussion went in this thread, this is excellent advice. Wasn't aware that there was an ignore feature, but I may need to look into it, if only to know how it works in case I need it in the future. Guess I started paying attention here too early 

[Sgt.Squarehead]

I credited the Image of Andy's Leopard wrongly, that one was built for The Modelling News and was not a BM build.

I'm sure Andy won't mind my mistake, but The Modelling News might so I do wish you guys would trust us to edit our posts without limit (BM does so).....If anyone abuses the privilege, ban them permanently! 

Edited February 17, 2017 by Sgt.Squarehead

[John Kettler]

Sgt.Squarehead,

What a spectacular model! When I saw it, given the stark white background, I thought it was some fabulous AFV illustration. The bustle on that thing would make a Victorian woman swoon with envy. What have they got back in the thing? Looks like something most people could cram their whole family into and come along for the ride. Would also imagine it makes turret traversing in narrow streets somewhat exciting. As for the real Leopard I posted about, it would be helpful from those who crewed them as to how hard it is to operate them and how long they estimate such a captured tank of that type could operate properly, absent all the motor pool tools and parts, as well as other support. I know a two-tour in Iraq Marine who, with no training whatsoever, jumped into a Marine Abrams a major wanted driven up a hill. Took him all of about a minute to figure out how to start it and put it in gear. Is the Leopard 2A4 that easy? My understanding is that the ISIS captured Iraqi M1s are being operated by "with the cause" Iraqi crews. American tax dollars at work! Of course, we've been killing them at every opportunity. 

Regards,

John Kettler

[A Canadian Cat]

1 hour ago, IICptMillerII said:

.... Wasn't aware that there was an ignore feature, but I may need to look into it, if only to know how it works in case I need it in the future. ...

If you hover over a member's name or icon on the left hand side of the thread the Ignore User command appears in the middle of the dark footer in the popup. There is a place on your profile page where you can manage your ignore list as well. 

[Sgt.Squarehead]

@John Kettler  Andy's work is just outstanding, here's his output for 2016:  http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/235014077-andys-2016/

But now we're drifting away from Leopards again.....There may actually be some former Leo 2 crews active on BM, modelling seems to be quite popular with veterans and despite the name it's a very multinational site (but with a very British attitude), so I've made a post to enquire.   

 

Edited February 17, 2017 by Sgt.Squarehead

[Sgt.Squarehead]

Forgot to add, that I'd guess at least part of the huge turret bustle may be counterweight for the L/55 barrel, much like an updated Sherman Firefly.

[John Kettler]

Sgt.Squarehead,

Thanks for the link. Absolutely blown away by that man's AFV work. Never heard, read or saw anything about a sponson trailer before. A trench crossing tail, yes, but never a sponson trailer. And who knew there was a T-15 Armata kit out, never mind that impressive (and am in no way sure properly designated) Upgraded BTR-60PB? The T-55AMV was impressive, though the owner, the African Union, didn't ring any bells. That said, I sucked on Africa decades ago, too. Andy must have a big house to hold all that stuff. I figure it's a house because Bolt Action, which I get to play sometimes, comes out of the UK and is generally played on a 3' x 3' board, this being a reflection of gamers hurting for space. The caricature planes are cute and made me smile.

Forgot to mention the Turks also had some sort of APC captured. The top was so cluttered I couldn't really tell what I was seeing. It's on the video at ~1:20 and has the turret off center to the right.

Regards,

John Kettler

 

[Kinophile]

Awwwwww you guys got back on track before I could finish my joke. 

[Sgt.Squarehead]

Oh go on then.....What was it? 

[Kinophile]

[Kinophile]

For when John took the bait :-)

Not getting at you john,  I have no beef. I find your posts often informative, intriguing and, tbh, sometimes convoluted in composition. But always worth a read :-). 

[Sgt.Squarehead]

Life's too short for giving each other grief.