FO can target entire map during setup?

[axxe]

I am in the setup phase of the third CMBN mission "Link Up".  I have not moved any units, or moved the TRPs.  When I select the FO and try to call in a fire mission I am apparently allowed to select any region on the map, regardless of if anyone has eyes on it.  Is this expected?  In the screenshot both TRPs are very far from the target region.

This is my first mission with an FO and available artillery during setup, so not sure what to expect here...

(As a side note, the briefing for this mission says "Task Force Raff is arriving from the southwest."  They're actually arriving from the SE.  Should I be reporting semi-trivial stuff like this?)

[Bulletpoint]

Yes, this is normal. It represents pre-planning the bombardment. You'll find that if you order a fire mission during setup, you also get the option to set a delay and in some cases a choice between regular and anti-personnel shells (timed airburst).

[axxe]

Wow, ok.  Thanks Bulletpoint!

[Warts 'n' all]

The fact that there are different schools of thought as to how to use arty in CMx2 is one of the joys of the game. For example, some players leave their TRPs exactly where they find them, whilst others might spend a large part of the "Set-up Phase" shifting them around the map so that they are just right for their own needs. And it is the same with pre-planned arty missions. Some prefer to wait until their scouts, FOs and HQs have identified targets. But, I for one love pre-planned missions along my route of advance. It doesn't always turn out for the best, just a case of trial and error.

[MOS:96B2P]

4 hours ago, axxe said:

I am in the setup phase of the third CMBN mission "Link Up".  I have not moved any units, or moved the TRPs.  When I select the FO and try to call in a fire mission I am apparently allowed to select any region on the map, regardless of if anyone has eyes on it.  <Snip> 

Yes.  Just as @Bulletpoint said.  Also, during the setup phase, you can target anywhere on the map with HQ units.  

[axxe]

So... is it standard practice to target the enemy's setup zone (assuming it's not full of buildings that make good cover) with an initial massive artillery barrage? Seems like an obvious tactic, though a bit gamey...

[zinzan]

This is generally seen as unbalanced, unfair and even reprehensible

Most players, tournaments and campaigns I have seen specifically ban such a bombardment.  If for no other reason that it makes for a boring and short game and you soon run out of opponents. 

 

[Holman]

Right.  It's generally agreed that no player is allowed to pre-target the opponent's set-up areas, but the problem is that you don't always always know where they are.  The usual course is to avoid plots that could affect the oppo's edge of the map and some margin in from there.

Some players go so far as to say that the defender (if there is one) is not allowed to pre-plot bombardments at all.

[Bulletpoint]

1 hour ago, axxe said:

So... is it standard practice to target the enemy's setup zone (assuming it's not full of buildings that make good cover) with an initial massive artillery barrage? Seems like an obvious tactic, though a bit gamey...

I think most players would find that to be a poor show indeed. The key to enjoy this game against other players is to find opponents with the same attitude as you have. I personally like to play against people who do their very best to win but at the same time display good sportsmanship, and I've been lucky to find a couple of them so far.

I've actually never really had to agree on many rules with them beforehand, but they have been playing remarkably fair. I think this is one of the big positives about Combat Mission - I sense the player base is generally older than for many other games out there, and (at least for some) older means wiser

[Ithikial_AU]

8 hours ago, Holman said:

Right.  It's generally agreed that no player is allowed to pre-target the opponent's set-up areas, but the problem is that you don't always always know where they are.  The usual course is to avoid plots that could affect the oppo's edge of the map and some margin in from there.

Some players go so far as to say that the defender (if there is one) is not allowed to pre-plot bombardments at all.

Though I'm not a big MP person this is generally the accepted rules I've come across. I don't think there is a problem with using pre-planned bomabrdments if you are assaulting a fixed position. The other caveat maybe if you are playing a scenario where you would assume the scenario designer has intended for one or both sides to have access to pre-planned artillery missions and balanced the sceanrio accordingly.

Keep in mine pre-planned missions are (in my experience) always on target/effective and therefore can be incredibly powerful. A simple scenario design trick is to make all off map support become available after 5 minutes as it prevents their use during the deployment phase. A five minute delay can usually be explained quite easily or be default lead to a more accurate historical scenario, even in the case of strict historically based scenarios.

[A Canadian Cat]

18 hours ago, axxe said:

So... is it standard practice to target the enemy's setup zone (assuming it's not full of buildings that make good cover) with an initial massive artillery barrage? Seems like an obvious tactic, though a bit gamey...

Actually a fairly consistently agreed upon set of artillery rules have a little more nuance:

Meeting engagement: no pre planned artillery

Attack, Assault, Probe: attacker can pre plan whatever they want but the defender cannot. Defender can have TRPs.

Basically the above recognizes two things that attacking often follows an artillery barrage and the defender should be spread out and expecting it. In situations where attackers are moving into the field of battle they often have small and identifiable setup zones that makes dropping artillery on them unfun /  unfair.

[axxe]

Those sound like good rules.  Be kind of nice if those were part of the game (enforced by the game engine).

[General Jack Ripper]

21 hours ago, axxe said:

So... is it standard practice to target the enemy's setup zone (assuming it's not full of buildings that make good cover) with an initial massive artillery barrage? Seems like an obvious tactic, though a bit gamey...

If you are playing multiplayer, then the idea has already been addressed.

If you are playing single-player, be wary of using all your arty in the initial barrage. I find most scenario makers have the enemy force arrive in stages. So, no matter how much you smash the enemy setup zone, you'll only hit a fraction of the force at one time.

[Bulletpoint]

2 hours ago, SLIM said:

If you are playing single-player, be wary of using all your arty in the initial barrage. I find most scenario makers have the enemy force arrive in stages. So, no matter how much you smash the enemy setup zone, you'll only hit a fraction of the force at one time.

Another nasty trick we sometimes do is to make the setup variable, so even if the enemy was over there in your last game, there's no telling where he is in this game

Not all scenarios have this variability, but I recommend all scenario designers to use it. Makes for much better replayability.