Recent combat vids from Ukraine

[DMS]

3 hours ago, Haiduk said:

I'am always wondering why "supressed 2nd sort of so-called Russian-speaking population" don't want to turn back in blessed  Holy Russia even by the state program of "compatriots returning". Looks like EU passport, salary in Euros  and even "2nd sort" status is much better, then living with Russian citizenship in Syberia or Nechernoziemye. Respect to Baltia states - they initialy have created the barrier of citizenship, which didn't allow Russia to use local non-baltic population in own political games. 

Well, yes. Very effective decision. Someone would call it fascism, but who cares, right? 

So, your proposal is to make them leave and suppress those who won't? Very interesting. And why they fight against you for 5 years? Mystery.

3 hours ago, Haiduk said:

Less pro-russians, less problems after liberation

Why "pro-Russians"? Be straight. "Russians".

[IMHO]

1 hour ago, DMS said:

Why "pro-Russians"? Be straight. "Russians".

There're also some "funny" things about Ukrainian "language law"

• It allows school education in native language for Hungarian and Romanian minorities in the Western Ukraine. But native language education for Russians in the Eastern Ukraine is strictly prohibited.
• If someone does as little as express his opinion in public that wider rights should be given to other languages the poor lad will spend up to 10 years in prison. Having such an opinion is a severe criminal offense in today's Ukraine

The law was authored by Petro Poroshenko. He has no problems with Ukrainian citizens identifying themselves as of Hungarian or Romanian ethnicity but he and his nationalistic thugs want to totally eradicate anything related to Russian language.

Edited December 22, 2019 by IMHO

[Haiduk]

No guys, your attempts to close this topic because of flame will fail.

I can only say, though Putin claimed "Borders of Russia are limited by borders of Russian language spreading", if in Ukraine any "Russian-world"-follower claims "I am where - is Russia there", he will get in own snout to the blood. In many senses. 

Edited December 22, 2019 by Haiduk

[ikalugin]

17 hours ago, Haiduk said:

There is no such nation like "people of Donbas". They are all citizens of Ukraine, which during dozen years were under pressure of propaganda of local elites, loyal to Kremlin. Their pro-russian moods mostly have consumer nature and based on phobias - from "Bandera-followers will massacre us" to "they will force us to change our faith to greko-catholician". In 2014 they believed if Russia comes here, they would get Moskow-level salaries and soviet-time prices like sausidge for 2.20 and vodka for 3.62. Even Strelkov told, they expected "Donbass people will rise and join to us in own struggle, but only 0,5% of all Donbas men enlisted to "peoples milita" - rest either left Donbas, or did nothing in hope that Russia will do all instead them". 

In liberated cities - Dobropillia, Sloviansk, Kramatorsk, Bakhmut, Kostiantynivka, Lysychansk,. Siverodonetsk, Mariupol and dozen settlement and villages so called "people of Donbass" have a peace. There is no demonstrations against Ukraine or partisan resistance. And from our side there is no any "Srebrenitsa" like threated Putin. Do you know why? Because the source of disturbance was cutted - Russia. No Russia - no stream of "volunter fighters for Russian world", no "vacationers", no banditism, no political  and weapon support of separatists. So, if Russia will go away, the peace will come quite soon.    

They are indeed Ukrainian citizens (well, most of them I would guess at this point due to them switching citizenship and/or moving), but there are legitimate grievances such as the ones related to the language problem, the church problem, etc. The peace thing is similar inside Donbas - the focus of fighting in civil war is on the frontlines (which drag out the fighters), unless there is a serious terroristic subtext (ie how it is sometimes with islamists).

As to the scale of the militia - low rates of direct participation are fairly normal in (civil) wars, particularly low intensity ones.

14 hours ago, Haiduk said:

They are already doing it. Russia gives to them own citizenship ( inner conflict, yes) and they are going to Russia. And this is good. Donbas under rule of Russian proxies completely turned out in depressive region with plundered mines and factories, cutted into the metal. Less pro-russians, less problems after liberation.  But Russia also doesn't want neither recognize, nor take occupied part of Donbass. 

 

I'am always wondering why "supressed 2nd sort of so-called Russian-speaking population" don't want to turn back in blessed  Holy Russia even by the state program of "compatriots returning". Looks like EU passport, salary in Euros  and even "2nd sort" status is much better, then living with Russian citizenship in Syberia or Nechernoziemye. Respect to Baltia states - they initialy have created the barrier of citizenship, which didn't allow Russia to use local non-baltic population in own political games. 

The citizenship initiative came in only after Kiev failed to enact the Minsk-2 relevant legislation, which was an important part of the proposed intial peace process. While those programs do exist and people do move out of Baltic states not all of them can and their right to having a passport had to be protected by the EU leadership via various measures against Baltic states. No such measures exist on part of EU or other such organisations to protect the rights of Ukrainian citizens. We can also compare the agregate economics you have mentioned in a number of ways, for example in this per capita metric Russia was in the same ballpark as Baltics till around 2013-2014:

https://www.google.com/publicdata/explore?ds=d5bncppjof8f9_&ctype=l&strail=false&bcs=d&nselm=h&met_y=ny_gdp_pcap_pp_kd&scale_y=lin&ind_y=false&rdim=region&idim=country:UKR:LTU:LVA:EST:RUS&ifdim=region&hl=ru&dl=ru&ind=false

"Respecting" rights violations is not something that would improve your standing with the EU. Nor would it make the aggrieved citizens happier or more pro-Kiev, if anything this is a way to push them into the hands of ethnic nationalists (so called Russian world etc).

Edited December 23, 2019 by ikalugin

[ikalugin]

7 hours ago, Haiduk said:

No guys, your attempts to close this topic because of flame will fail.

I can only say, though Putin claimed "Borders of Russia are limited by borders of Russian language spreading", if in Ukraine any "Russian-world"-follower claims "I am where - is Russia there", he will get in own snout to the blood. In many senses. 

Technically speaking this discussion that we are participating is against the forum rules, though we now all share that responsibility.

As to the blood - political repressions are, sadly, nothing new for the region. And unless you can both go through the war resolution process, for example via the established Minsk-2/Steinmaer's implimentation compromise or some other path, a comprehensive reform, Ukraine is not going to recover.

All said I see some light, with the investigations (and court trials) into the original events of Maidan and political murders (ie that of Sheremet) advancing.
Maybe we would see some grievance resolution (ie regarding the language legislation) with the Ukrainian citizens next, as well as some real reforms.

 

Edited December 23, 2019 by ikalugin

[ikalugin]

But I think we should get back on topic, or to separate this discussion from this thread, as it may kill it.

Edited December 23, 2019 by ikalugin

[IMHO]

12 hours ago, ikalugin said:

The citizenship initiative came in only after Kiev failed to enact the Minsk-2

Ukraine conveniently forgets about its own deeds. More than 10% of the population of Transnistria have Ukrainian passports. Even the President of Transnistria is an Ukrainian citizen.

Edited December 23, 2019 by IMHO

[Haiduk]

3 hours ago, IMHO said:

More than 10% of the population of Transnistria have Ukrainian passports.

Ahah. And 220 000+ on 2017 year (about 50 % of PMR population) had Russian passports. Where Russia and where Transnistria? 

Unlike on Donbas, where Russia established system of Russian passports receiving among UKRAINIAN citizens, these 10 % of Transnistrians are GOING TO Ukraine with OWN OLD SOVIET passports to make Ukrainian citizenship - since 1992 year their citizenship status still unclear. Of course, when they gives request for Ukranian citizensip, they don't say they already have also collection of Moldovian, Russian and in some cases Romanian passports %)

Edited December 23, 2019 by Haiduk

[IMHO]

1 hour ago, Haiduk said:

these 10 % of Transnistrians are GOING TO Ukraine with OWN OLD SOVIET passports to make Ukrainian citizenship

1. The address of the CURRENT Ukrainian consulate in Transnistria. https://pmr.md/ff3f4433c816f3fed781fc95670d9471/news
2. Passports were moved to Cisinau to punish Transnistrians for not supporting Ukrainian ethnic cleansing operations in Donbass but before that the procedure was very remarkable. To start the operation as soon as possible Ukraine RENTED A FLAT (sic!) in Tiraspol (the capital of Transnistria) and representatives of Ukrainian was shuttling once a week between Transnistria and Ukraine collecting documents and distributing passports. I'll quote you from an interview with a Transnistrian resident:

Quote

Ukrainian officers were very quick with their job. If a problem arose with the documents it was normally solved in seconds. They would turn blind eye to many inconsistencies. It took people no more than a fortnight to get a new passport, a month in the most complex cases. It seems Ukrainians were eager to fulfill some quota assigned to them from above.

When it was convenient for Ukraine it had no qualms about giving away its passports but now as the situation has been reversed Ukraine is crying foul. Just like this

On 12/21/2019 at 8:02 PM, Haiduk said:

This is a big difference with "true" SS-division

German's was "bad" SS but Ukraine's was only "good" SS.

Edited December 23, 2019 by IMHO

[Haiduk]

16 hours ago, IMHO said:

German's was "bad" SS but Ukraine's was only "good" SS.

All troopers of SS-divisions were members of SS, troopers of national "waffen der SS" divisions weren't members of SS (because they weren't Germans), except middle and high commanders-Germans. Waffen der SS is just "division with structure and weapon LIKE SS". There is no any tribunal judgment  about Halychyna division fighters. Looks like Stalin brought much "happіness" in 39-40 to Western Ukraine, that 83 000 volunteers tried to enlist to division in 1943.  As well as in Baltic states.

 

16 hours ago, IMHO said:

Ukrainian ethnic cleansing operations in Donbass

Ahaha, this is beautiful! How much "Donbas people" already "cleaned" in liberated cities? How much liitle boys were crucified by "right sector punishers"? After liberation of Sloviansk Russian media seriously said Ukrainians killed ar jailed all population and bring people from Western Ukraine to demonstrate "happy and thanksfull" citizens. As well as reportages about "camps of the death", which built for "Donbassians". They just coldn't understand why local didn't protest against Ukrainian troops, enetered to the city and didn't block them like in spring of 2014. And the cause is simple - Russian influence factor has gone.

 

About passports - Ukrainian citizenship locals could get as far as from the mid of 90th. There is no such recognized state, so locals can choose even Zimbabve citizenship. You really don't see any difference between Russia invaded and occupied territory of other state and gives there own citizenship and situation in Transnistria - grey zone, where population without clear sitizenship can take as much passports as want? By the way Transnistria exists to this time only because corrupted officails in Ukraine (including Poroshenko) and Moldova have a profit from existing of this "contraband cloaca".

Edited December 24, 2019 by Haiduk

[Haiduk]

But back to the thread.

Examples of early war atmosphere- June of 2014, Sloviansk area. First video - supply convoy on own way through checkpoints - soldiers shell on the moving suspicious tree-plants to prevent possible ambush.

Second video - two BTR-4E assist to repel the attack on checkpoint. Pay attention how checkpoints look - there almost no any trenches - in that time UKR troops didn't want to dig its.

 

 

 

[Erwin]

7 hours ago, Haiduk said:

All troopers of SS-divisions were members of SS, troopers of national "waffen der SS" divisions weren't members of SS (because they weren't Germans), except middle and high commanders-Germans. Waffen der SS is just "division with structure and weapon LIKE SS". There is no any tribunal judgment  about Halychyna division fighters. Looks like Stalin brought much "happіness" in 39-40 to Western Ukraine, that 83 000 volunteers tried to enlist to division in 1943.  As well as in Baltic states.

It needs to be clarified that if one was a national of a conquered country and got conscripted (or volunteered) to fight the (mostly hated) Soviets, you had to join an SS formation since non-German nationals could not be in the German Army.  For example, all the men living in the Baltic states like Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania who were fighting to liberate their countries from the Soviets who had invaded and occupied those countries after the Russian Revolution would have to be in some sort of SS formation for legal reasons.  It didn't mean they were all Nazis etc.

 

[Haiduk]

52 minutes ago, Erwin said:

you had to join an SS formation since non-German nationals could not be in the German Army.

Not always. For example, Russian Liberation Army (ROA), Georgian Legion and some other were subordinated to Wehrmacht, Ukrainan Self-Defense Legion (ULS) was subordinated to SD and later to Wehrmacht . Also volunreers could enlist to auxiliary police units like Schutzmanschaft. But indeed, since 1943 most of national units, created on Axis side, were subordinated to SS. Germany needed more soldiers with proper training to reinforce own losses.

Edited December 24, 2019 by Haiduk

[BFCElvis]

On 12/22/2019 at 10:27 PM, ikalugin said:

But I think we should get back on topic, or to separate this discussion from this thread, as it may kill it.

I'm kinda thinkin the same thing. 

[Sgt.Squarehead]

Isn't that BTR (with the comedy turret) one of the ones you fobbed off on Iraq?

https://www.kyivpost.com/article/content/business/ukraine-starts-first-btr-4-shipment-to-iraq-102614.html?cn-reloaded=1

Quote

Iraq has ordered 450 BTR-4s. 40 vehicles of the third batch delivered arrived with rust and damaged hulls and were not accepted by Iraq.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BTR-4

Edited January 1, 2020 by Sgt.Squarehead

[Zveroboy1]

Yes please don't derail this thread too much or lock it. I like watching combat footage and it is good for finding ideas or inspiration for scenarios too.

[Haiduk]

18 hours ago, Sgt.Squarehead said:

Isn't that BTR (with the comedy turret) one of the ones you fobbed off on Iraq?

Yes, first party of BTR-4E adopted by National Guard and later by 25th airborne brigade were form Iraq contract. They all were under repair, so not all 40 or more came to NGU and army at once

Edited January 2, 2020 by Haiduk

[Haiduk]

Video with Rammstein song, filmed probably by fire support company of some battalion of 58th mot.inf.brigade during their last summer rotation near Horlivka. Most of video - the work of SPG-9, also some HMG, 82 mm mortars and UAV spotters. Several examples of target hit at the end.

@BarendJanNL I, think, I got another example of spotters with UAV/PDA work for indirect fire targeting for direct fire weapon - SPG-9. Look at 2:09-2:13

  

 

[BarendJanNL]

Good footage indeed, thanks a lot!