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John Kettler

Recent combat vids from Ukraine

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IMHO,

Regarding 1) Oops. Shall have to be more careful next time. Regarding 2) Possible sightings at 1:41 and 2:43, plus a definite scoped weapon (partially hidden by soldier's bod; type unknown to me) at 2:45.

Steve,

Great video! Does the new Battle Pack have this sort of typical steppe terrain, as opposed to our rather constrained LOS situation in the core game. Hope so, for that's when those not presently terribly useful BSR and such really show their worth; where they are finally able to carry out their intended functions (target detection as small as a single soldier, feeding targeting data from multiple sensors into the FS network, observing and adjusting artillery fire using radar only, etc.) from ranges well outside of tank cannon and most ATGMs' range, providing them a measure of survivability they simply don't have now. As I've said before, the Russians have ground systems which can see 10 kilometers because they have lots of spaces where this is usable, such as some of what that video showed in a small portion of the endless steppe which drove some German soldiers mad because they had no such vast flat spaces in Germany and their minds couldn't deal with something so extraordinary. If the Battle Pack does have this sort of steppe terrain, then I believe it will be a boon to the Russians, who've been geared to fight in that environment going clear back to the Cold War. We are, I believe, late to the game in this area, though our get well program is pretty scary (LRAS, COLT, TOW ITAS, etc.). Can't speak much to the US BSR side, but am reasonably certain the US has no direct counterparts to the armored tracked Russian ones. From what I know, the US has to take to the air to obtain the deep look capabilities the Russians have long had on the ground.

Regards,

John Kettler

 

 

 

Edited by John Kettler

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Not exactly recent, but I found this one (clip starting at 13:42) pretty scary. I don't understand a word, but it seems to show separatist (Luhansk people's republic) infantry and two APCs attack an Ukranian position on what must be the worst possible route, in an open field. Stopped by a tank that suddenly showed up at close range. It seems as if the infantry spotted the tank first. They fired RPGs but missed (?). The RPGs' explosions created a lot of smoke? One shot almost hit the other separatist APC which was crossing at fast speed. Then the tank hits the APC at least two times? Then there is a cut and we can see a lot of burning vehicles, the separatists on the retreat.

 

Edited by Kaunitz

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7 hours ago, Kaunitz said:

Not exactly recent, but I found this one (clip starting at 13:42) pretty scary. I don't understand a word, but it seems to show separatist (Luhansk people's republic) infantry and two APCs attack an Ukranian position on what must be the worst possible route, in an open field. Stopped by a tank that suddenly showed up at close range. It seems as if the infantry spotted the tank first. They fired RPGs but missed (?). The RPGs' explosions created a lot of smoke? One shot almost hit the other separatist APC which was crossing at fast speed. Then the tank hits the APC at least two times? Then there is a cut and we can see a lot of burning vehicles, the separatists on the retreat.

 

This is known video, already posted here. This is episode of summer 2014 (writing 2015 on video is mistake). Separs hit BM Bulat with RPG-26 (or 22), but ERA worked properly. Looks like priority target for tankers were BTRs,  so infantry with RPGs, against which ERA "Nozh" protects on 90 % was just ignored. Though, as you see, the tank shot a HEAT or APFSDS into infantry too (possibly it hadn't HE). 

Edited by Haiduk

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Known video for April 2016, but now in good quality. Two enemy trucks with mounted mortars were driving to position. UKR ATGM crew has shelled its and made big boom by hitting of truck with ammunition. Enemy losses in that attack were 5 KIA, 10 WIA. In media mistakinly has been considering that this is Stugna-P launch (because of trajectory of first missile), but in real this was AT-4C Fagot, just first missile failed. The operator, which has launched these missiles, got killed in result of 152 mm artillery strike since half year after this shot.

 

Edited by Haiduk

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Im curious - that was a single ATGM team firing in quick succession?

The 2nd missile is pretty quick after the first. Fagot is tripod mounted, saclos.

Could the sudden arcing up of the 1st missile be from upsetting/shifting the guidance box (mounted on top of the firing tube) as the second missile was loaded in?

 

Edited by kinophile

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3 hours ago, kinophile said:

Im curious - that was a single ATGM team firing in quick succession?

The 2nd missile is pretty quick after the first. Fagot is tripod mounted, saclos.

Could the sudden arcing up of the 1st missile be from upsetting/shifting the guidance box (mounted on top of the firing tube) as the second missile was loaded in?

 

Yes, that one team firing. Though, video was mounted - you can see on 0:25-0:26 a smoke is disappearing at once. But here episode of skirmish in Avdiivka industrial zone ("Promka"), also for April 2016. Fire support group of Right Sectror is desroying enemy fortified point. 6 ATGMs through 3 minutes + probably 2 SPG-9 and PKM

 

 

 

About your last question - about of 30-40 % of AT-4 ATGMs expired own terms of use, so such behavior (launch fails, loss of inflight control, weird trajectories) is typical.

Edited by Haiduk

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I'm surprised there wasn't any suppressing mortar fire on that fire team. But I guess that mental 6/3min firing rate is followed by GTFO to the next FP. 

That was one guy on the atgm - imagine how rapid he'd be with an assist. 

I've been nailed by ripple salvos of 5 atgms/2 mins in CMBS, but never from a single FT. 

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45 minutes ago, kinophile said:

I'm surprised there wasn't any suppressing mortar fire on that fire team.

Not each fire contact on Promka or elsewhwre is acompaning with mortars. Looks like in this case enemy has established own fortification too close to our positions. Usually on such position can be one-two piece(s) of heavy infantry weapon and half or full squad of personnnel. Possibly after first shells enemy just fled and RS guys calmly had been destroying enemy position. On third ATGM launch operator exclaims: "Directly in the window!" 

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Haiduk,

Had I not read the explanation I might've been remarking about the new Ukrainian ATGM pitch-up mode, but the Vein post-doctoral for visual FX secondary more than made up for my misinterpretation! Your second video raises an important point about suppression from firing an ATGM indoors. It was patently obvious to me there was a guy mere meters away shooting short measured MG bursts--while launch after launch was conducted. Presumably, the structure was rather opened up, but what we see is, I believe, presently impossible in CMBS. Also, I found this in the sidebar. Though posted in 2016, most of the footage (which is diverse, covers both sides and very good) in quality, is from 2014, but I wonder what those ex-soldiers are saying? Thought the Inform Napalm callouts, coupled with footage of some of the actual EW systems and such, was particularly noteworthy.

Regards,

John Kettler

Edited by John Kettler

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On 09.07.2017 at 11:38 PM, John Kettler said:

Haiduk,

Though posted in 2016, most of the footage (which is diverse, covers both sides and very good) in quality, is from 2014, but I wonder what those ex-soldiers are saying? Thought the Inform Napalm callouts, coupled with footage of some of the actual EW systems and such, was particularly noteworthy.

Sorry for delay with answer, I have watch this material - there just briefly tell about stance of Ukrainan army on eve of war, about problems with capable troops number during Crimea annexion and initial phase of ATO - group of Ukrainin Natioal Guard, Police, SBU and partially army forces, which lately were involved in operation of Sloviansk blocking was not more then 1800 men. Other part pf army in that time either moved to the border from Chernihiv to Kherson and Odesa and try to reinforce itself with mobilized personnel and repaired vehicles. Almost tell about complete abscence of proper HQ control of troops in 2014 during summer campaign. Men which are giving interview are officer of 95th VDV brigade (in khaki T-shirt) and famous civil volunteers Yury Biriukov (in blue T-shirt) and "Serge Marco" (in rose), which applied many efforts to rise up in 2014 of 79th VDV brigade and Marines. Biriukov later have became president's advisor and launched many programs in MoD (new MREs, new system of feedeing, new system of logistic, new uniform and gears etc) - alas all of them are implementing too slow because of resistance of MoD officials and some corrupted political and business representatives. Some telling about DAP and Debaltsevo, about Russian new C&C (R-166) and EW (R-330Zh) vehicles, used in the war. "Serg Marco" tell that during final phase of Debaltsevo battle Russian EW systems almost completely downed communication in Debaltsevo appendix. Though, this is not surprised - most of platoon-level radios in infantry usage in that time were civil chineese radios, Soviet type military radios or even cell-phones. 

Edited by Haiduk

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Very short video, uploaded 1-2 days ago. Russian crew of BMD-2 from 247th air-assault regiment of 7th air-assault mountain division is spotting battlefield southern of Horbatenko village with recently hit and burning Ukrainian vehicles of "Sector B" HQ group during elimination of Ukrainian columnes, exiting from Ilovaisk  29th Aug 2014. Good to see how narrow angle of view has spotting devices of armored vehicles (to the question about fast spotting targets by armor in CM)

So, what we can see on this video. Infographics from Ukrainian OSINT blogger Askai.

First of all through what filmed the video. 

DGd5eoDWAAAgpp0.jpg

1 UAZ-469 of 121st signal regiment. The jeep have got ATGM missile. In the car were senior officers - colonel, commander of 121st signal regiment - was heavy injured and shot by Russian officer, when Russians and merceneries were taking prisoners after massacre; mayor, officer of SIGINT troops control of "East" operative command (organizated control of UAV usage during Ilovaisk operation); captain, officer of SIGINT troops control of "East" operative command. Both got killed in the car. Only driver was wounded and survived. 

DGaM4YMXcAEseR2.jpg

2. Destroyed communication vehicle 1B1Sh "Kushetka-B" (on base of BTR-80) of 121st signal regiment. In the vehicle got killed two servicemen of 121st brigade and mayor, communication officer of 208th information&signal node of "East" operative command. Fourth crewman - lieutenent colonel can survive. 

DGaLkp3XcAIGbZn.jpg

 

DGaLlqfW0AA6VqV.jpg

3. BMP-2 of 7th company of 3rd batatlion of 51st mech.brigade.Three bodies were found nearby - soldiers have sat on top. Burned remains of crew were extracted much later and identified by DNA test only in 2015 - when volunteers abd Red Cross in next three days were gathering bodies, BMP stil hot like owen and they couldn't reach to them. Probably colonel, commander of 51st brigade also got killed near this BMP.   

DGaM5eBXoAEaL-9.jpg

 

Edited by Haiduk

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This video named battalion "Donbas" in the battle near Karlivka 23.05.2014, but I doubt. In this day in Karlivka a platoon of this volunteer battalion was ambushed in this settlement and have suffred heavy losses. They havn't any armor like in this video. Possibly, this is attempt to break through to Karlivka after the ambush with suport of some army units, but I can't say exacly.

In the the video, initially, column of UKR forces - T-64BV, 2 BMP-2, BTS-4 turned into armored MG platform (looks like all from 93rd brigade), BTR-80 (I think, from some National Guard special unit) and dozen pick-ups of "Donbas"  are moving by road to own objective. Operator is driving with "Donbas". Armored vanguard of UKR troops engaged by enemy - heavy shooting heard, but strange, BMPs and tank didn't shot from own guns. "Donbas" fighters are starting also intensive shooting through tree-plant aside the road. Looks like it's just "area fire" for suppression of possible enemy beyond tree-plant. Vanguard is turned back, "Donbas" fighters say "There is heavy enemy positions and as minimum four snipers and MG gunners - we can't detect their positions, just bullets wizz near eras. We need outflank it left". But soon they decided to return on own position. Looks like no losses in column after engagement.

Several snipers and MG-gunners have forced column with armor to cancel own mission. Repeat this in CM ! :) 

 

 

Edited by Haiduk

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2 hours ago, kinophile said:

Bananas. 

I'm surprised a Donbass Batt unit would hold back - my impression was that they are pretty hard-charging. 

This is naturally - if army armor turns back, for light armed Donbas to continie attack is a suicide. 

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13 hours ago, kinophile said:

But... Turned back from. MG fire. 

....umm?

Nobody wants to die. If you can't detect source of incoming fire, especially sniper, this can seriously reduce motivation of personnel to advance. 

Here for you the video with almost similar situation. 10 Aug 2014 - the probe to enter in Ilovaisk. Fighters of "Azov" advance through the sunflower field and turn under fire of enemy snipers and MGs. During all video fighters ask each other "Do you see them ? From where is fire?" They are shelling ruined building, the house nearby (at the end of video in that house ammo dumb is setting fire). On 6:12 famous "Azov" arniored KAMAZ guntruck "Prianyk" (eng."Gingerbread") is appearing. "Move 300 meters forward for better position!", order it commander. Later "Prianyk" will be damaged with incoming fire and will leave the battle (not filmed). Single armor on video - BMP-2 of 51st mech.brigade, which covered "Azov". It's continuously is breaking during the battle and at the end failed completely and was abandoned by crew. "Azov" tried to advance under fire, but lost 3 KIA. The same situation was with "Donbas", which adcanced left from "Azov". They encountered with heavy fortified positions and masked enemy riflemen in tree-plants, which couldn't exactly detect. Thus, again several snipers, MGs and 1-2 82 mm mortars have stopped advance of 200 men. In this day UKR forces lost 12 KIA (4 from "Donbas", 3 from "Azov", 3 from 40th territorial defense battalion "Kryvbas", 2 from "Right sector"). 

Big trouble of CM - almost immediate uncovering of position of groups, which open fire. As you see on videos, which I upload here, in most cases, soldiers can't detect point of fire and forced just to shoot in suspicious places. And of course if you will try to play like in real life in order to save own pixeltrooppen, you will not throw them through the fields on enemy invisible MGs.    

Better to see from 1:23

 

Edited by Haiduk

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Haiduk,

Though I couldn't find a way to post this video directly, it is quite remarkable in a number of ways, starting with how unbelievably atmospheric it is. Featured is a mixed Ukrainian force of BMP-2, BTR-70, a bunch of different military truck types, some sort of Land Cruiser type vehicle and a pickup truck. Action is furious at times and very confusing, in a video with tons of technical problems but lots going on. Have never seen anything quite like this intermingling of AFV and soft skins in battle. 

Regards,

John Kettler

 

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14 hours ago, John Kettler said:

Haiduk,

Though I couldn't find a way to post this video directly, it is quite remarkable in a number of ways, starting with how unbelievably atmospheric it is. Featured is a mixed Ukrainian force of BMP-2, BTR-70, a bunch of different military truck types, some sort of Land Cruiser type vehicle and a pickup truck. Action is furious at times and very confusing, in a video with tons of technical problems but lots going on. Have never seen anything quite like this intermingling of AFV and soft skins in battle.

Неre this video, possibly I already posted it, but doubt... This is start of moving of UKR troops (army, border guards, volunteers) from the base camp near Agronomichne and Mnohopillia villages some southern from Ilovaisk. Dawn of 29 Aug 2014. All only is beginning. To the end of day most of these guys on video will be already dead, wounded or captured. 

 

 

Edited by Haiduk

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Haiduk,

Yes, that's the video. Why are the trucks up there with the armor? Also, do you have any idea what that explosion is at ~6:13. It's pretty low order, so am thinking more of a mine, say, than a shell or mortar bomb, especially since it's the only such event.

In Марьинский район, 23.05.2014. I was totally baffled by the almost zero (saw a BTR use the KPVT briefly) fire from all that armor. What a waste of combat power!  It may've been a really weird camera angle that explains it, but at ~13:02 I see what looks like a HIFV. 

Regards,

John Kettler

Edited by John Kettler

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